'Super Rugby' 2021
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I lived in Melbourne in 2002 and 2003. There was a buzz around the city in 2003 for the RWC. The All Blacks were based there and drew a lot of media attention. The locals curiosity was piqued, beyond a doubt. And then you look at the crowds that have been drawn to BC and Lions tests. Huge travelling contingents for sure, but plenty of local fans as well.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@booboo i know i'm continuously explaining the difference between Union and League to well meaning aussies when they try engage in some rugby chat, thats melbourne thought
But they know they're different sports. And I'm sure they know which one has an international profile and which doesn't. Explaining the difference is something else entirely. The point is, I reckon if the Storm and the Rebels each played a final at the MCG; the Storm vs the Roosters and the Rebels vs the Crusaders - with the proviso that they're equally well marketed - the latter would draw a much larger crowd because the game has an international profile and that would spin their wheels hard. Likewise a BC test vs a Kiwis vs Kangaroos test. And lastly, if you asked your average Victorian which of the two Australia national sides they knew of, the vast majority would say the Wallabies.
@shark I agree with this. I think there are loads of latent fans that just switched off because Rugby management in Aus couldnt run a piss up in a brothel and it's been run into the ground. If we could:
a) get our best players back;
b) get the bigger games on FTA with effective marketing;
c) win the occasional thing; and
d) deport Phil Kearnsthe crowds would come back, and quickly.
Only 20 years ago that the Bled was played in front of 110k.
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I lived in Melbourne in 2002 and 2003. There was a buzz around the city in 2003 for the RWC. The All Blacks were based there and drew a lot of media attention. The locals curiosity was piqued, beyond a doubt. And then you look at the crowds that have been drawn to BC and Lions tests. Huge travelling contingents for sure, but plenty of local fans as well.
@shark i think a lot has changed in the last 17 years, we're talking about a time when Aussies teams we're up there, the brumbies won it in 2001 and 2004 plus obviously the WC so i bet there was a bit of hype
the A-League has started since then and now had three teams in melbourne, one of which is the comps most successful team so that draws off a bit of winter support too
i think short of the Rebels actually being a contender...marketing might not be enough nd even
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@booboo i know i'm continuously explaining the difference between Union and League to well meaning aussies when they try engage in some rugby chat, thats melbourne thought
But they know they're different sports. And I'm sure they know which one has an international profile and which doesn't. Explaining the difference is something else entirely. The point is, I reckon if the Storm and the Rebels each played a final at the MCG; the Storm vs the Roosters and the Rebels vs the Crusaders - with the proviso that they're equally well marketed - the latter would draw a much larger crowd because the game has an international profile and that would spin their wheels hard. Likewise a BC test vs a Kiwis vs Kangaroos test. And lastly, if you asked your average Victorian which of the two Australia national sides they knew of, the vast majority would say the Wallabies.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@booboo i know i'm continuously explaining the difference between Union and League to well meaning aussies when they try engage in some rugby chat, thats melbourne thought
But they know they're different sports. And I'm sure they know which one has an international profile and which doesn't. Explaining the difference is something else entirely. The point is, I reckon if the Storm and the Rebels each played a final at the MCG; the Storm vs the Roosters and the Rebels vs the Crusaders - with the proviso that they're equally well marketed - the latter would draw a much larger crowd because the game has an international profile and that would spin their wheels hard. Likewise a BC test vs a Kiwis vs Kangaroos test. And lastly, if you asked your average Victorian which of the two Australia national sides they knew of, the vast majority would say the Wallabies.
Yes, this is quite true, but less so in the last 10 years or so. In any event, people still won't care for a domestic rugby team, in the way that they can for an international team, because the domestic team plays (a) far more often and (b) often at the same times as an AFL game, both of which are a potential distraction from a Victorian's true passion, i.e. their AFL team.
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@shark i think a lot has changed in the last 17 years, we're talking about a time when Aussies teams we're up there, the brumbies won it in 2001 and 2004 plus obviously the WC so i bet there was a bit of hype
the A-League has started since then and now had three teams in melbourne, one of which is the comps most successful team so that draws off a bit of winter support too
i think short of the Rebels actually being a contender...marketing might not be enough nd even
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark i think a lot has changed in the last 17 years, we're talking about a time when Aussies teams we're up there, the brumbies won it in 2001 and 2004 plus obviously the WC so i bet there was a bit of hype
the A-League has started since then and now had three teams in melbourne, one of which is the comps most successful team so that draws off a bit of winter support too
i think short of the Rebels actually being a contender...marketing might not be enough nd even
This and, like I said above, getting a decent crowd to watch the Wallabies during (a) a World Cup on home soil when they are defending champions or (b) a once every 12 year Lions tour, is a very different prospect to watching the Rebels week-in, week-out during the AFL season.
Also, things have moved on massively in 17 years @shark. There just isn't the same level of interest in sports other than AFL anymore, particularly for unsuccessful teams.
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I have to defer to the opinions of those who have lived in Melbourne more recently than I, but I still maintain a Rebels team performing at a high level against all-comers would create a lot of interest. Whatever happened to the old saying that they could pack the MCG out for the opening of an envelope?
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I have to defer to the opinions of those who have lived in Melbourne more recently than I, but I still maintain a Rebels team performing at a high level against all-comers would create a lot of interest. Whatever happened to the old saying that they could pack the MCG out for the opening of an envelope?
@shark never heard that saying...but i imagine its easier with club memberships over 100k like Richmond (reported).but i will concede thats what they have to do if theyre ever to win over the crowd, real contenders onto of first class marketing and probably some clever scheduling so as not to go head to head with games at the G
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just to removed any doubt, these are the reported memberships for the AFL clubs last year
im sure there is some creative accounting but that is the size the the beast Rugby is trying to compete with in Melbourne even before you looks at the A-League and the Storm and hell, the VFL gets some ok crowds, i go to watch Port Melbourne more often than anything else
there were multiple games last season that were mid table, mid season, so not playoffs or teams on a great run of form...and we're over 80k in the ground...they love their clubs
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i dont know if i agree with that, lots aren’t 100% that they are different sports, not with the people i talk too, I think they identify with the club approach like the nrl rather than the region approach or rugby
even if they did i dont know if international sport is an attraction...Melbournians love the AFL even thought its barely followed outside Melbourne let alone aus
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
i dont know if i agree with that, lots aren’t 100% that they are different sports, not with the people i talk too, I think they identify with the club approach like the nrl rather than the region approach or rugby
even if they did i dont know if international sport is an attraction...Melbournians love the AFL even thought its barely followed outside Melbourne let alone aus
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
i dont know if i agree with that, lots aren’t 100% that they are different sports, not with the people i talk too, I think they identify with the club approach like the nrl rather than the region approach or rugby
even if they did i dont know if international sport is an attraction...Melbournians love the AFL even thought its barely followed outside Melbourne let alone aus
AFL has a big foothold in Qld now, AFL pick up the best athletes in QLd,cricket .is finding it hard to compete
Being in the QLd cricket system we always lose top athletes to AFL it has a great marketing strategy. -
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
i dont know if i agree with that, lots aren’t 100% that they are different sports, not with the people i talk too, I think they identify with the club approach like the nrl rather than the region approach or rugby
even if they did i dont know if international sport is an attraction...Melbournians love the AFL even thought its barely followed outside Melbourne let alone aus
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
i dont know if i agree with that, lots aren’t 100% that they are different sports, not with the people i talk too, I think they identify with the club approach like the nrl rather than the region approach or rugby
even if they did i dont know if international sport is an attraction...Melbournians love the AFL even thought its barely followed outside Melbourne let alone aus
AFL has a big foothold in Qld now, AFL pick up the best athletes in QLd,cricket .is finding it hard to compete
Being in the QLd cricket system we always lose top athletes to AFL it has a great marketing strategy.@Chris not surprised, the AFL goes out of its way to help the out of state and newer teams, priority draft picks, out of state payments etc
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just to removed any doubt, these are the reported memberships for the AFL clubs last year
im sure there is some creative accounting but that is the size the the beast Rugby is trying to compete with in Melbourne even before you looks at the A-League and the Storm and hell, the VFL gets some ok crowds, i go to watch Port Melbourne more often than anything else
there were multiple games last season that were mid table, mid season, so not playoffs or teams on a great run of form...and we're over 80k in the ground...they love their clubs
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
just to removed any doubt, these are the reported memberships for the AFL clubs last year
im sure there is some creative accounting but that is the size the the beast Rugby is trying to compete with in Melbourne even before you looks at the A-League and the Storm and hell, the VFL gets some ok crowds, i go to watch Port Melbourne more often than anything else
there were multiple games last season that were mid table, mid season, so not playoffs or teams on a great run of form...and we're over 80k in the ground...they love their clubs
Yet more proof that the GC is where sporting teams die.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
just to removed any doubt, these are the reported memberships for the AFL clubs last year
im sure there is some creative accounting but that is the size the the beast Rugby is trying to compete with in Melbourne even before you looks at the A-League and the Storm and hell, the VFL gets some ok crowds, i go to watch Port Melbourne more often than anything else
there were multiple games last season that were mid table, mid season, so not playoffs or teams on a great run of form...and we're over 80k in the ground...they love their clubs
Yet more proof that the GC is where sporting teams die.
@antipodean will be interesting if it changes next year, the Suns have had some good results
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@antipodean will be interesting if it changes next year, the Suns have had some good results
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean will be interesting if it changes next year, the Suns have had some good results
Won't change a thing. The GC is where sporting teams die. The AFL has been here before with the Bears. They'll be propping up this team forever unless they can find another Melbourne team to merge with it and relocate.
It's the same with basketball, rugby, league, soccer, tiddlywinks. The GC isn't interested.
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Brutal Super Rugby Aotearoa opens door for Rugby Australia in trans- Ta$man negotiations
So we are saying that we need some soft cocks to fill in the gaps? Bring on the Force? Dilute the competition so that it is not worth watching? FFS.
What happened to quality? Less is more, etc? Quality over quantity? Bigger crowds and more TB viewers.They have a chance to get this right, even if it means more bye weeks and fewer games for player recovery time.
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Brutal Super Rugby Aotearoa opens door for Rugby Australia in trans- Ta$man negotiations
That's the weakest weak shit I've read so far about this new comp.
Can boil it down to "rest your players against our shit standard". Unbelievable.
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@Stargazer said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Brutal Super Rugby Aotearoa opens door for Rugby Australia in trans- Ta$man negotiations
So we are saying that we need some soft cocks to fill in the gaps? Bring on the Force? Dilute the competition so that it is not worth watching? FFS.
What happened to quality? Less is more, etc? Quality over quantity? Bigger crowds and more TB viewers.They have a chance to get this right, even if it means more bye weeks and fewer games for player recovery time.
@Snowy spot on. This feels a lot like the glory days of Super 12 rugby, where there were massive tussles every week. Loving the comp.
If you get the quality, the crowds and funds follow. The Super 18 can fark off, less is more.
I note that the NFL is a 16 game regular season - and that's it. Wonder why we can't do a proper 12 team comp, accept its' going to be 11 weeks, and then there is international rugby to fill the gaps. I'd rather focus for three months, than suffer through 4-5 months of meaningless competition where you can be out of contention before the cricket sesaon finishes.
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@Snowy spot on. This feels a lot like the glory days of Super 12 rugby, where there were massive tussles every week. Loving the comp.
If you get the quality, the crowds and funds follow. The Super 18 can fark off, less is more.
I note that the NFL is a 16 game regular season - and that's it. Wonder why we can't do a proper 12 team comp, accept its' going to be 11 weeks, and then there is international rugby to fill the gaps. I'd rather focus for three months, than suffer through 4-5 months of meaningless competition where you can be out of contention before the cricket sesaon finishes.
Agreed. The very best thing about this competition is that the winless Chiefs could beat the Crusaders this week, and fuck everything up for them. You can't miss a game.
I can't believe that the powers that be haven't worked out that having two shorter competitions would be better than one long, crappily designed competition.
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@Snowy spot on. This feels a lot like the glory days of Super 12 rugby, where there were massive tussles every week. Loving the comp.
If you get the quality, the crowds and funds follow. The Super 18 can fark off, less is more.
I note that the NFL is a 16 game regular season - and that's it. Wonder why we can't do a proper 12 team comp, accept its' going to be 11 weeks, and then there is international rugby to fill the gaps. I'd rather focus for three months, than suffer through 4-5 months of meaningless competition where you can be out of contention before the cricket sesaon finishes.
@nzzp Because money. It's fine if you're the NFL and can pull a TV audience of 16m each game. But we aren't the NFL.
Unless we can find private equity money, both the NZRU and RA are reliant on TV revenue. And to get that revenue, we to provide more than 11 weeks of content.
It's a shitty situation to be in, because we are forced to choose (somewhat) between quality and quantity. Both in terms of how many rounds and how many teams in the comp itself.
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@nzzp Because money. It's fine if you're the NFL and can pull a TV audience of 16m each game. But we aren't the NFL.
Unless we can find private equity money, both the NZRU and RA are reliant on TV revenue. And to get that revenue, we to provide more than 11 weeks of content.
It's a shitty situation to be in, because we are forced to choose (somewhat) between quality and quantity. Both in terms of how many rounds and how many teams in the comp itself.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp Because money. It's fine if you're the NFL and can pull a TV audience of 16m each game. But we aren't the NFL.
would love to know what the vieweing numbers were for Super 12 when it was running. Also, remember there are internationals as well -- so you get a 14-15 week comp (depending on byes), and then another 3-6 top tier international games (plus all the overseas ones). Then you can run an amateur or semi-pro comp internally before an end of year tour
