'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Yeetyaah said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Machpants honestly I say fuck it let them have 5 and only 2 of them competitive teams. They wanna be laughed at its on them, if the 5 teams are competitive, power to them.
I kinda agree with you, but it really does dilute the product. I wouldn't bother with some matches when the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Viewing numbers fall, attendances at the ground fall. A shit product is a shit product, so do we all have to suffer through mediocrity and just wait for the finals?
@Snowy It’s a poont but it’s not as bad as when you had the SW and the extra SA teams (Kings FFS). Cos then you have time zone and travel effects, both in costs and lack of viewing. I think the Ozzie idea of 5+5 next year, and add PI and maybe another the year after is the best. I’d prefer Oz to only have 3, but that does not reflect reality. We can’t have a PI tema next year, cos they’ll just be dregs like SW, and will get smashed every week. And if they are based in AKL, how TF are they a PI Team?
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Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up. Other countries/teams would prefer to be part of a marketable product anyway.
Build things back from the ground up. Maybe even get other franchise licenses to set up in NZ with a view to relocating down the track eg a PI or Fiji based team based in Pukekohe (or Whangarei), get the Jaguares to set themselves up in Nelson or Napier. Put a licence out for a franchise from the “Americas” and maybe one from Japan. Let them sort out players. I’d guess a few Aussie players would make themselves available and a private backer may even look to create an ocker franchise.
Our 5 with 5 others as a start. All based in NZ. Keep costs low.
If Oz and SA want to set up their own as well then a Super Bowl like “final” could be played. -
As predicted, by everyone but NZR it seems, AR have come out and said it’s 5 teams or 0, your choice NZ. NZR have totally fucked this by making it all public. Dicks
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
As predicted, by everyone but NZR it seems, AR have come out and said it’s 5 teams or 0, your choice NZ. NZR have totally fucked this by making it all public. Dicks
I'm getting a real sense of deja vu. Hosting rights, expanding to improve depth...
This looks a disaster regardless of the outcome.
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Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up. Other countries/teams would prefer to be part of a marketable product anyway.
Build things back from the ground up. Maybe even get other franchise licenses to set up in NZ with a view to relocating down the track eg a PI or Fiji based team based in Pukekohe (or Whangarei), get the Jaguares to set themselves up in Nelson or Napier. Put a licence out for a franchise from the “Americas” and maybe one from Japan. Let them sort out players. I’d guess a few Aussie players would make themselves available and a private backer may even look to create an ocker franchise.
Our 5 with 5 others as a start. All based in NZ. Keep costs low.
If Oz and SA want to set up their own as well then a Super Bowl like “final” could be played.@Crucial would many of those countries WANT to set up in NZ? little to no "home" support?
and would brand new PI or american teams be more competitive than the aussie ones?
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@Crucial would many of those countries WANT to set up in NZ? little to no "home" support?
and would brand new PI or american teams be more competitive than the aussie ones?
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial would many of those countries WANT to set up in NZ? little to no "home" support?
and would brand new PI or american teams be more competitive than the aussie ones?
Yeah we aren’t big enough to support that. And it is no bluff by Oz, they cannot, politically, afford to get rid of any of their teams. It just about tore AR apart last time. Ane now they have 5 teams again, a few good games, and some big bucks backing for one team - that’s no bluff just shit for both countries if we go it alone.
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this is going to damage both Unions pretty badly.
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this is going to damage both Unions pretty badly.
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
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@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
we are simply too small to do it by ourselves.
In the end both unions either go broke, or lose too many players to big O/S contracts.
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Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up. Other countries/teams would prefer to be part of a marketable product anyway.
Build things back from the ground up. Maybe even get other franchise licenses to set up in NZ with a view to relocating down the track eg a PI or Fiji based team based in Pukekohe (or Whangarei), get the Jaguares to set themselves up in Nelson or Napier. Put a licence out for a franchise from the “Americas” and maybe one from Japan. Let them sort out players. I’d guess a few Aussie players would make themselves available and a private backer may even look to create an ocker franchise.
Our 5 with 5 others as a start. All based in NZ. Keep costs low.
If Oz and SA want to set up their own as well then a Super Bowl like “final” could be played.@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up.
Just to clarify this - in order to avoid having five second rate Australian teams, you will set up a comp with five third rate teams from Asia, the PIs and the Americas?
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
we are simply too small to do it by ourselves.
In the end both unions either go broke, or lose too many players to big O/S contracts.
@mariner4life oh, misunderstood
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@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up.
Just to clarify this - in order to avoid having five second rate Australian teams, you will set up a comp with five third rate teams from Asia, the PIs and the Americas?
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up.
Just to clarify this - in order to avoid having five second rate Australian teams, you will set up a comp with five third rate teams from Asia, the PIs and the Americas?
god that would suuuuck
the worst of both worlds
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We know from history that a league without sufficient depth results in terrible teams getting flogged. No one watches those games, so they're a net loss.
New Zealand doesn't have the economics to support a competition of any considerable length of time but what it does bring to the table is quality.
Australia brings more economic opportunity, but less quality. There's no way accepting the ham-fisted ultimatum by NZR is politically viable for RA. The economic opportunity is tied directly to the competitiveness of the Australian franchises.
It's a terrible catch-22.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
we are simply too small to do it by ourselves.
In the end both unions either go broke, or lose too many players to big O/S contracts.
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
I'm not sure we do. I agree NZ sides are generally better (though not by as much as some here seem to think), but nobody I know has had any issues with the quality of rugby in SuperAU. Sure there's been a few stinkers, but you will get that in any competition.
There's a world where we have 5 Aussie teams, the Fiji Drua (already involved in NRC), and one more team from Asia (Sunwolves?) and it's a pretty tidy little comp. Yeah it may not be world beating and I still prefer TT but I think it probably ends up a more solid commercial proposition than what NZ could muster. Not by a huge amount, but a little bit.
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life you think it will damage NZ? will it be much worse than previous comps?
I mean if both teams go it alone. Australia need our quality, (sorry Aussies, it's arrogant but it's true);
I'm not sure we do. I agree NZ sides are generally better (though not by as much as some here seem to think), but nobody I know has had any issues with the quality of rugby in SuperAU. Sure there's been a few stinkers, but you will get that in any competition.
There's a world where we have 5 Aussie teams, the Fiji Drua (already involved in NRC), and one more team from Asia (Sunwolves?) and it's a pretty tidy little comp. Yeah it may not be world beating and I still prefer TT but I think it probably ends up a more solid commercial proposition than what NZ could muster. Not by a huge amount, but a little bit.
@barbarian yeah righto, have fun with it.
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this is going to damage both Unions pretty badly.
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
this is going to damage both Unions pretty badly.
Yep. A "few" good Aussie teams would be good. However, how the fuck is having weak teams in a competition "growing the game" in any way?
It comes down to the very heart of rugby to me - contest. Contest for the ball is the very premise of the game. Rucks, mauls, scrums, lineouts - all about winning the ball. Don't we all hate uncontested scrums? That is what extra Aussie teams add to me. Not worth watching.
Until Australia can prove that they have enough good players to compete with 5 teams ...which they have yet to do, they would ruin what has been a fantastic SRA.
How much would they actually bring financially for NZR?
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Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
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We had this debate about five pages ago, but man you'd think no Aussie team had won a game in years. Or even been close. I know you guys think the rugby sun shines out your arsehole, but really you aren't quite as good as you think you are.
And you need to realise that winning isn't the main concern of RA in designing this comp. It's getting a viable commercial product that ensures local fans get good content in their home city.
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If the answer is a competitive NRC level team and the Force, the question is shit.
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We had this debate about five pages ago, but man you'd think no Aussie team had won a game in years. Or even been close. I know you guys think the rugby sun shines out your arsehole, but really you aren't quite as good as you think you are.
And you need to realise that winning isn't the main concern of RA in designing this comp. It's getting a viable commercial product that ensures local fans get good content in their home city.
@barbarian viable rugby in Melbourne?????
