'Super Rugby' 2021
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We had this debate about five pages ago, but man you'd think no Aussie team had won a game in years. Or even been close. I know you guys think the rugby sun shines out your arsehole, but really you aren't quite as good as you think you are.
And you need to realise that winning isn't the main concern of RA in designing this comp. It's getting a viable commercial product that ensures local fans get good content in their home city.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
It's getting a viable commercial product that ensures local fans get good content in their home city.
Loads of fans want to go a see a substandard team go and lose in their home town, aye?
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
It's getting a viable commercial product that ensures local fans get good content in their home city.
Loads of fans want to go a see a substandard team go and lose in their home town, aye?
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@Snowy But the alternative is ending that team, and telling their fans to just go home. It's not as simple a choice as you all seem to think.
@barbarian Nobody thinks it's simple. It is just harsh reality.
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Super 10 still sounds a hell of a lot better than Super 18 was.
You don't have the issue of big travel - you'd have say 7-8 competitive teams every year competing for say 4 semi final spots.
You don't have the issue of conferences and lopsided schedules.
The Kiwis would watch the kiwi derbies - the Aussies would watch the aussie derbies. The good trans Ta$man games would get watched. Ok the bad games wouldn't get many viewers but how is that much different to Super 12 was?
Sounds good.
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Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
@Kirwan said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
Aust can't even support 4 sides (financially or player quality). If they want 5 they should do it alone (it would be better for them rather than their teams being thrashed ever other week by NZ sides). NZ would be best just to step away until they come to their senses (likely after about 1 or 2 years when they are close to bankrupt)
I would sooner watch 5 NZ sides as the main competition (but NZ need to set a financial structure up so its impossible for 1 team to win year after year) than playing 2nd rate Aussie sides. NZ should stick with the 5 sides plus a PI side. 6 sides but NZ must ensure the PI can compete
And maybe look at some sort of pool knockout competition as well. This may include SA, Aust NZ PI Japan and maybe some Celtic league sides as well
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Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
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Super 10 still sounds a hell of a lot better than Super 18 was.
You don't have the issue of big travel - you'd have say 7-8 competitive teams every year competing for say 4 semi final spots.
You don't have the issue of conferences and lopsided schedules.
The Kiwis would watch the kiwi derbies - the Aussies would watch the aussie derbies. The good trans Ta$man games would get watched. Ok the bad games wouldn't get many viewers but how is that much different to Super 12 was?
Sounds good.
@KiwiMurph Yup that’s where I’m at too. Reality for Oz and us.
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Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
don't they average less than 10k through the gate?
Those tests are always packed with people from other states travelling because a weekend in Melbourne is awesome for the rugby. That and Melbournians will actually front for an international event.
FWIW i am happy to keep the 5 if you really want, but you cannot pretend the comp is going to be better for it.
You are effectively hanging your hat on one side a year being a shot. Australian supporters are not going to stand for that (they haven't in the past, why would they now?)
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Super 10 still sounds a hell of a lot better than Super 18 was.
You don't have the issue of big travel - you'd have say 7-8 competitive teams every year competing for say 4 semi final spots.
You don't have the issue of conferences and lopsided schedules.
The Kiwis would watch the kiwi derbies - the Aussies would watch the aussie derbies. The good trans Ta$man games would get watched. Ok the bad games wouldn't get many viewers but how is that much different to Super 12 was?
Sounds good.
@KiwiMurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Super 10 still sounds a hell of a lot better than Super 18 was.
You don't have the issue of big travel - you'd have say 7-8 competitive teams every year competing for say 4 semi final spots.
You don't have the issue of conferences and lopsided schedules.
The Kiwis would watch the kiwi derbies - the Aussies would watch the aussie derbies. The good trans Ta$man games would get watched. Ok the bad games wouldn't get many viewers but how is that much different to Super 12 was?
Sounds good.
Yeah, maybe another key point is a max of 12 sides. So eventually the islands side and maybe one from Japan. But no more bloat.
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Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
@Kirwan said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
Yep bang on. Enough with the cock measuring. Let's have on-field results determine who's right and who's wrong. But if there is ANY talk of conferences and automatic qualifiers, they can fuck off. Then come back a little bit, and fuck off a bit further.
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Super 10 still sounds a hell of a lot better than Super 18 was.
You don't have the issue of big travel - you'd have say 7-8 competitive teams every year competing for say 4 semi final spots.
You don't have the issue of conferences and lopsided schedules.
The Kiwis would watch the kiwi derbies - the Aussies would watch the aussie derbies. The good trans Ta$man games would get watched. Ok the bad games wouldn't get many viewers but how is that much different to Super 12 was?
Sounds good.
@KiwiMurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Super 10 still sounds a hell of a lot better than Super 18 was.
For sure, but Australia provide the extra 2 competitive teams?
8 teams home and away with a finals series? Or we are back to a PI and Japan add on? I doubt that they would be competitive too.
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my only concession to the having five aussie teams (other than it not looming like we have a choice) is looking at the crowds they can get to bottom of the ladder AFL and NRL teams...there is a decent percent of aussies that will support "their" team regardless...i can relate...so if theyre going to insist on five then they need to find a way to get the community involved i etc other than results, i real connection from local clubs to the teams
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@Kirwan said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
Yep bang on. Enough with the cock measuring. Let's have on-field results determine who's right and who's wrong. But if there is ANY talk of conferences and automatic qualifiers, they can fuck off. Then come back a little bit, and fuck off a bit further.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kirwan said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Whatever, let them have five but our red line is no guaranteed finals spots. Be careful what you wish for with no finals in Aussie at the pointy end of the comp.
Yep bang on. Enough with the cock measuring. Let's have on-field results determine who's right and who's wrong.
What's this right and wrong? There is no debate here. Everyone acknowledges that the Aussie teams will likely be weaker.
RA want five teams because it is a better commercial proposition for them, and better for their fan bases across Australia.
FWIW I think four teams is the right number for us, but can understand that RA would rather burn NZRU than their own fans again.
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Why not? They have had pretty solid support, albeit with poor results. Regularly have big crowds at Bledisloes, tests etc.
@antipodean Six years ago. How long did that take to find?
Got 30k to Ireland a few years ago, I'd reckon that's decent enough. Boosted by expats, sure, but that's why the city has potential to sustain a team. The interest is there.
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Speaking of the Rebels - they definitely want a trans Ta$man comp cos their biggest crowds come in games v Kiwi opposition.
@KiwiMurph probably because there are more kiwis in Melbourne than aussie rugby fans.....:smirking_face:
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@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up.
Just to clarify this - in order to avoid having five second rate Australian teams, you will set up a comp with five third rate teams from Asia, the PIs and the Americas?
@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Call their bluff I reckon.
They have neither the player quality or money to set up an attractive product themselves that would threaten what we want to set up.
Just to clarify this - in order to avoid having five second rate Australian teams, you will set up a comp with five third rate teams from Asia, the PIs and the Americas?
No. My thinking is that we stop looking at the past type of setup which has caused these problems and look at a totally new concept of a pro comp.
we can provide the facilities and the best broadcasters for rugby in the world. We can also provide 5 quality teams/franchises. We would want maybe 5 more to kick things off and need to widen interest beyond the old Oz teams. If they want to buy 2 or 3 franchise licences then good on them.
Our teams can still be backed by the NZRU but others can be private. It makes commercial sense for a PI “themed” franchise to start up. If the aussies don’t want their established teams in then they run the risk of players being offered contracts in NZ comp franchises.
Kind of a US sport approach.
I don’t think we are too small at all. We are arguably the best rugby country in the world and should have a quality comp to sell. Making travel domestic only removes massive costs. -
@antipodean Six years ago. How long did that take to find?
Got 30k to Ireland a few years ago, I'd reckon that's decent enough. Boosted by expats, sure, but that's why the city has potential to sustain a team. The interest is there.
@barbarian I think I've slowly come around to your (and RA's) point of view. There's also a really important point in here about the 'now' versus the future. There is not chance to get better if you're not regularly playing the best, and the trans Ta$man comp provides that.
I want Rugby to be strong, both in NZ and Aus . Right now, NZ is better than Aus in player development, scouting, etc. That said, having more rugby pathways (BULLSHIT BINGO ALERT) for pro players in Aus is a good thing, and must help people develop.
The Force are the only ones I'm leery of, given their location. OTOH, if they have 'pay for play' and we get a rugby stronghold, it'd be worth the investment. And, sides only travel there every second year for regular season games.
NZRU have handled this terribly. I think they will be boxed into a corner by their own statements, and wind up eating a bunch of humble pie. Long term, Rugby is a wonderful sport and I'd love to see it being taken as seriously as AFL and NRL in Aussie. So, roll on Super 12 v2.0? Or even a Super 9, home and away?
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Who would've thought that NZR would appoint a dumbo ex-All Black as CEO. Shocking. Right out of the Fonterra play-book.
@Tim said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Who would've thought that NZR would appoint a dumbo ex-All Black as CEO. Shocking. Right out of the Fonterra play-book.
is there a rugby Board in the world who do it differently though? It's a massive boys club of a sport
