'Super Rugby' 2021
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im worried if we made a six NZ team, it would naturally either be upper north island based and/or draw on a lot of fringe Auckland/counties/north harbour or the journeymen kind of guys...exactly the kind f players the Landers have often needed to fill the squad
I know this is a personal issue but if that was the case its not going to effect the Saders for example...so we're just going to make the gap from top of the ladder to bottom bigger...and that doesn't exactly sounds like an interesting comp
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@Kiwiwomble Why would it necessarily be upper North Island based? Both North Harbour and Counties hardly have the turnstyles spinning rapidly when it comes to attendances at either of those two venues come NPC time.
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Question for Aussie posters.
How expandable is SR Australia with Reds and Warratahs.
If, for example. Were to keep existing 5 franchises. But expand by adding existing Sydney and Brisbane clubs. Would it work if clear separation from Reds and Warratahs as clubs rather than state teams?
Eg. Reds and Warratahs change their kits. Keep colours but use hoops rather than traditional state team kits.
NSW and Qld rep teams reborn for origin , but use Blues and Maroons branding
Say GPS Brothers, Randwick, Manly, Sydney Uni join.
Have league of:
Qld Reds
Brisbane Brothers
Brisbane GPS
Warratahs
Manly
Randwick
Sydney University
ACT Brumbies
Melbourne Rebels
Western ForceWould supporters of Warringah or Eastrrn Suburbs be still likely to follow Warratahs? Or get in a jealous hump that their close rivals have been elevated to national level?
Or if created NRC style regional pseudo-mergers. Would a Warratahs brand still work if also added a North Shore franchise? Or NSW Country? Or a Manly-Warringah, would a Manly-Warringah work?
Note. The club teams I have inserted just treat as hypothetical. Just trying to gauge ways ARU can expand domestic SR in future while keeping Warratahs and Reds brands.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Question for Aussie posters.
How expandable is SR Australia with Reds and Warratahs.
If, for example. Were to keep existing 5 franchises. But expand by adding existing Sydney and Brisbane clubs. Would it work if clear separation from Reds and Warratahs as clubs rather than state teams?
To answer this one - it's tough. A legacy strength and weakness for us is that our most popular teams are state based, being the Waratahs and Reds. So as you point out introducing a new city franchise would muddy the waters.
I tend to be against splitting those teams up, or creating new teams to sit alongside them in Sydney/Brisbane. I'm not sure we have the support base to begin with, and starting artificial sides is a tough business as the NRC showed.
I wonder if Rugby AU is drawn to the Pacifika idea because they could base themselves in Western Sydney (during Covid) and provide that second local team without clashing with the Tahs.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Question for Aussie posters.
How expandable is SR Australia with Reds and Warratahs.
If, for example. Were to keep existing 5 franchises. But expand by adding existing Sydney and Brisbane clubs. Would it work if clear separation from Reds and Warratahs as clubs rather than state teams?
To answer this one - it's tough. A legacy strength and weakness for us is that our most popular teams are state based, being the Waratahs and Reds. So as you point out introducing a new city franchise would muddy the waters.
I tend to be against splitting those teams up, or creating new teams to sit alongside them in Sydney/Brisbane. I'm not sure we have the support base to begin with, and starting artificial sides is a tough business as the NRC showed.
I wonder if Rugby AU is drawn to the Pacifika idea because they could base themselves in Western Sydney (during Covid) and provide that second local team without clashing with the Tahs.
@barbarian was there any discussion around the ARC teams becoming the new basis for super rugby, RA focus funding/promoting them, super rugby players drop down to those teams etc?
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@barbarian was there any discussion around the ARC teams becoming the new basis for super rugby, RA focus funding/promoting them, super rugby players drop down to those teams etc?
@Kiwiwomble Yes, quite a bit. Sadly the NRC teams just don't have the recognition or support of the wider community, and never really took a foothold in their six or seven years.
Having better players would help but it wouldn't generate the crowds or revenue needed to pay them a competitive wage.
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@Kiwiwomble Yes, quite a bit. Sadly the NRC teams just don't have the recognition or support of the wider community, and never really took a foothold in their six or seven years.
Having better players would help but it wouldn't generate the crowds or revenue needed to pay them a competitive wage.
@barbarian didn't even realise the ARC had been going that long
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I have to say I've been impressed with the way RA have handled themselves in this last month or so. Very conciliatory and open in their plans. This latest interview continues the trend: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300079263/super-rugby-sky-wants-a-transtasman-competition-says-rugby-australia
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Question for Aussie posters.
How expandable is SR Australia with Reds and Warratahs.
If, for example. Were to keep existing 5 franchises. But expand by adding existing Sydney and Brisbane clubs. Would it work if clear separation from Reds and Warratahs as clubs rather than state teams?
Eg. Reds and Warratahs change their kits. Keep colours but use hoops rather than traditional state team kits.
NSW and Qld rep teams reborn for origin , but use Blues and Maroons branding
Say GPS Brothers, Randwick, Manly, Sydney Uni join.
Have league of:
Qld Reds
Brisbane Brothers
Brisbane GPS
Warratahs
Manly
Randwick
Sydney University
ACT Brumbies
Melbourne Rebels
Western ForceWould supporters of Warringah or Eastrrn Suburbs be still likely to follow Warratahs? Or get in a jealous hump that their close rivals have been elevated to national level?
Or if created NRC style regional pseudo-mergers. Would a Warratahs brand still work if also added a North Shore franchise? Or NSW Country? Or a Manly-Warringah, would a Manly-Warringah work?
Note. The club teams I have inserted just treat as hypothetical. Just trying to gauge ways ARU can expand domestic SR in future while keeping Warratahs and Reds brands.
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I have to say I've been impressed with the way RA have handled themselves in this last month or so. Very conciliatory and open in their plans. This latest interview continues the trend: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300079263/super-rugby-sky-wants-a-transtasman-competition-says-rugby-australia
@barbarian you mean they want the simple and obvious solution? funny that.
could also be complete bullshit.
Been saying since the start it's the only thing that makes sense. And Im all on board a points based finals series, no handicaps. Personally don't even like finals series - should just be a table like European soccer. There's almost never an upset in the finals.
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@barbarian you mean they want the simple and obvious solution? funny that.
could also be complete bullshit.
Been saying since the start it's the only thing that makes sense. And Im all on board a points based finals series, no handicaps. Personally don't even like finals series - should just be a table like European soccer. There's almost never an upset in the finals.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian you mean they want the simple and obvious solution? funny that.
could also be complete bullshit.
Been saying since the start it's the only thing that makes sense. And Im all on board a points based finals series, no handicaps. Personally don't even like finals series - should just be a table like European soccer. There's almost never an upset in the finals.
i like that too, but the two things that make that work are playing every team home and away and also playing several games at the same time....so there is the suspense if two or three teams in the running
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@barbarian you mean they want the simple and obvious solution? funny that.
could also be complete bullshit.
Been saying since the start it's the only thing that makes sense. And Im all on board a points based finals series, no handicaps. Personally don't even like finals series - should just be a table like European soccer. There's almost never an upset in the finals.
i like that too, but the two things that make that work are playing every team home and away and also playing several games at the same time....so there is the suspense if two or three teams in the running
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@Kiwiwomble Dont see why playing every team home and away wouldnt work for a TT. Too many games?
@Derpus i'd love to see it but yeah, think the conclusion would bee too many games or the squads would have to be too big to rotate players
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@Higgins purely on population base
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Higgins purely on population base
Yep. Any sixth NZ team would simply have to be based in the Auckland region in order to draw any sort of crowd. Taranaki doesn't have a stadium or population base and, BOP lacks a decent ground and HB has a reasonable ground but again probably not the population base. You could argue the Highlanders lack a population base as well, but they have a stadium which helps draw numbers plus a history.
Moot points though as we simply don't have the depth to sustain another franchise. The obligatory 'who missed the SR squads' thread has year on year become more and more pathetic.
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
This is what RA is proposing to broadcasters:
I like this. It is close to my desired outcome.
I gave a few concerns. I'd worry about viability of State of Union as long as Warratahs and Reds exist as state franchises within their domestic SR. Would struggle to sell that .
My other concern, linked to the first in some ways. ARU seem welded to having single professional team representing each of NSW and Qld. This makes no sense in a post-SR world. Sydney and Brisbane need to be the backbone of their competition supplying multiple teams each.
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
My other concern, linked to the first in some ways. ARU seem welded to having single professional team representing each of NSW and Qld. This makes no sense in a post-SR world. Sydney and Brisbane need to be the backbone of their competition supplying multiple teams each.
Australia are just working from their desires and limitations backwards. They don't have enough teams or players (without resorting to a double round robin format - boring) and need to manufacture more domestic rugby by including other countries.
I don't see any desire from other nations to carve off another full month where half the elite playing group will continue to play and the others will be resting.
Moving the SR finals to three weeks already had a lot of resistance for this very reason.
Laughable proposal.
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@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
My other concern, linked to the first in some ways. ARU seem welded to having single professional team representing each of NSW and Qld. This makes no sense in a post-SR world. Sydney and Brisbane need to be the backbone of their competition supplying multiple teams each.
Australia are just working from their desires and limitations backwards. They don't have enough teams or players (without resorting to a double round robin format - boring) and need to manufacture more domestic rugby by including other countries.
I don't see any desire from other nations to carve off another full month where half the elite playing group will continue to play and the others will be resting.
Moving the SR finals to three weeks already had a lot of resistance for this very reason.
Laughable proposal.
@rotated Maybe they are also considering the legal implications of trying to cut out SA and Argentina entirely without consent, and trying to balance this with the need to have more domestic content. They've had some recent Court experience which tends to leave one scarred.
It would be nice to see someone else taken to the cleaners after acting like mugs for once.
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by surplus they mean NPC players that dont get a super contract? would have that many that would be a huge improvement for them? i kind of feel real NPC stars that miss out on a super contract is still "newsworthy" so cant be that common
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@KiwiMurph Convincing New Zealand to sanction its players playing in Australia will be a tough ask, but NZR is already funnelling players to Japan as a way of coping with the overseas player drain. It has been happening in an unofficial capacity for a number of years, with the likes of Taniela Tupou, Pete Samu and Sekope Kepu moving to Australia in search of opportunities.
So where's the benefit?
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@KiwiMurph Convincing New Zealand to sanction its players playing in Australia will be a tough ask, but NZR is already funnelling players to Japan as a way of coping with the overseas player drain. It has been happening in an unofficial capacity for a number of years, with the likes of Taniela Tupou, Pete Samu and Sekope Kepu moving to Australia in search of opportunities.
So where's the benefit?
@antipodean presumably the theoretical benefit would be a more competitive comp.
