Highlanders v Hurricanes - now at 3:05pm
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Bit harsh on Mo'unga who makes most tackles, but there is an issue about NZ 10s and wings that their defence is weak in comparison with their 6 Nations peers.
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@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Bit harsh on Mo'unga who makes most tackles, but there is an issue about NZ 10s and wings that their defence is weak in comparison with their 6 Nations peers.
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
I would say those aspects would put him ahead of Barrett.
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
I think that's the rule isn't it? BB used to take lessons from Mehrts, then he actually realised he was a decent size and then improved in that area.
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Mehrts used to avoid tackles while the current 1st 5s resemble doormats.
I didn't say Mehrts was a good coach.
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Highlanders v Hurricanes: Saturday 15 August, 7:05pm, Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
Referee: Brendon Pickerill
Assistant Referee 1: Mike Fraser
Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman
TMO: Chris Hart
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@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 -
@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 Nice post.
Jordan has done a better job on defense than it sometimes looks.
One thing he really needs to work on are turnovers. From my reading of the same stats, he conceded 12 turnovers!
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@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 @Stargazer said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 I'd be wary of quoting statistics without context (and we all know the Professor's thought about them).
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 I'd be wary of quoting statistics without context (and we all know the Professor's thought about them).
@antipodean Yeah, I agree with that, but these stats show that people making general claims about some players being bad tacklers are just plain wrong.
By the way, using stats - to make general claims - to talk up players should be treated with the same amount of reservation as using stats to say that certain players are not good/not good enough/average/bad.
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tackling stats are meaningless when it comes to effective defense.
when watching a game, a poor read on defence, and not close enough to attempt a tackle doesnt get counted as a miss.
Also do they count tackle assists or when more than 1 person was part of a tackle?
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when watching a game, a poor read on defence, and not close enough to attempt a tackle doesnt get counted as a miss.
Also do they count tackle assists or when more than 1 person was part of a tackle?
@taniwharugby said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
when watching a game, a poor read on defence, and not close enough to attempt a tackle doesnt get counted as a miss.
Also do they count tackle assists or when more than 1 person was part of a tackle?
ah yes, the Nathan Hindmarsh "40 tackles" stat. 15 tackles and 25 flops
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when watching a game, a poor read on defence, and not close enough to attempt a tackle doesnt get counted as a miss.
Also do they count tackle assists or when more than 1 person was part of a tackle?
@taniwharugby thats probably more of an issue for outside backs though isn't it? getting caught out of position
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If a 1st 5 is defending in their channel the opposing player will be running at you so a missed tackle usually means you've been sat on your arse, or slipped off a tackle. A fullback has much more space to defend in comparison so it's not surprising their success % will be lower.
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@taniwharugby thats probably more of an issue for outside backs though isn't it? getting caught out of position
@Kiwiwomble many on that list are outside backs or sometimes drop back to defend back as well.
BUt as @Bovidae says, often if a 10 misses, he is usually speed bumped, but by the same token, if a 10 holds on by the foot and the 7 finishes, the 10 still gets a 'tackle'
