Blues 2021
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@chris said in Blues 2021:
@nzzp said in Blues 2021:
@chris I don't think you can lay the blame at the feet of Rieko. I'm thinking of a back 3 that gets back and counterattacks strongly, returns kicks well, kicks well for territory.
Perofeta was solid at times doing some of those, but frankly I expected more from those lads. Rieko wasn't amazing yet, but solid enough with distribution.
My other point is Reiko a product of what is happening from 9 to 12,
2/8/9/10 ... and then 12
Seriously, though, I think Rieko's B+ and knocking on the door of the ABs. He brings solid defence and a speed opportunity that is rare. He's on the way up. Distribution took a step up again, and I'd say is one of the easier things for a good coaching group to keep improving. If you have to trade off an inexperienced 12 or 13 at the top level, I prefer ALB/RIoane to Havili/ALB... but ultimately it's up to the coaches.
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@taniwharugby said in Blues 2021:
@chris-b it isnt quite as bad when you have 2 9s alternating starting/bench roles, but the Blues do it with 3 halves, and while Ruru has a longer rope than the other 2, none really have had much chance to get going, as I think only Christie has had an injury but that was in the 1st game.
After game 1, Ruru has had 4 starts in 6 games and came off the bench in the other two - so he's arguably had a pretty decent run. I'd guess he'd have a similar pattern of starts to Hall and Drummond, who have switched around a fair bit - and maybe even Smith and Fakatava.
The other two have had a decent amount of game time, so neither can sit there like Ere Enari thinking, "I'm clearly number 3, I think I'll try my luck elsewhere".
@chris-b this is what I don’t get. Why would Enari be willing to stay at the Crusaders when he’s behind two other halfbacks. The Crusaders are really good at keeping guys in their squad even when they aren’t getting a run. Surely he will be looking elsewhere for next year, Blues being the obvious choice if there is room. Landers are sorted at halfback, the Canes are looking good there with Roigard coming through and the possibility of Perenara returning. The Chiefs are solid without being spectacular, so it really only leaves the Blues or overseas as a real option for Enari going forward.
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@nzzp said in Blues 2021:
ALB/RIoane
It went well in the North/South match. Shame we didn't see it more
@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.
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@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.
@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball.
Yes he is. Yes he does.
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@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball.
Yes he is. Yes he does.
@duluth no he isn’t and no he doesn’t. He lacks the intelligence and skill set required to be an international caliber centre.
Every time he makes a break he hardly ever looks to his outsides because he has the wingers mentality of having a crack himself. He’s been doing it all season.
By all means though the Blues should keep playing him there, they are less dangerous because of it.
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@duluth pointing out the stats against a weak Chiefs side probably isn’t the best example. He never does this when he comes up against a good defensive structure. The sign that a centre is doing their proper job is when the wingers stats are through the roof. The fact the Blues have the best winger in the country and he’s been a shadow of his test form is saying something.
Ioane should just bite the bullet and go back to the wing where he is far more deadly IMO.
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@duluth said in Blues 2021:
10 passes and 5 runs in the weekend. 8 passes 11 runs the week before that. He passes.
You'd have to ignore all the times he passes (some for trys, like the Sullivan example I posted earlier) to think he doesn't pass. Bit of a weird opinion to have.
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@duluth pointing out the stats against a weak Chiefs side probably isn’t the best example. He never does this when he comes up against a good defensive structure. The sign that a centre is doing their proper job is when the wingers stats are through the roof. The fact the Blues have the best winger in the country and he’s been a shadow of his test form is saying something.
Ioane should just bite the bullet and go back to the wing where he is far more deadly IMO.
He's struggled with making good decisions about whether to pass or hold but that doesn't mean he doesn't pass. In a few situations this year he passed when he shouldn't have, but that's part and parcel of learning to be a good 13. He has speed and can pass well, so it's just learning about when to throw the pass which is hi big work-on (as well as a few defensive issues, where he is also improving).
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@duluth no he isn’t and no he doesn’t. He lacks the intelligence and skill set required to be an international caliber centre.
Every time he makes a break he hardly ever looks to his outsides because he has the wingers mentality of having a crack himself. He’s been doing it all season.
By all means though the Blues should keep playing him there, they are less dangerous because of it.
@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
@duluth no he isn’t and no he doesn’t. He lacks the intelligence and skill set required to be an international caliber centre.
Every time he makes a break he hardly ever looks to his outsides because he has the wingers mentality of having a crack himself. He’s been doing it all season.
By all means though the Blues should keep playing him there, they are less dangerous because of it.
He passes. Mostly very well too.
He is obviously trying to take a gap or skin someone when he doesn't. If there is a criticism it would be the decision making, just like most mid fielders. Laumape misses a few opportunities to pass as well.
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He's struggled with making good decisions about whether to pass or hold but that doesn't mean he doesn't pass. In a few situations this year he passed when he shouldn't have, but that's part and parcel of learning to be a good 13. He has speed and can pass well, so it's just learning about when to throw the pass which is hi big work-on (as well as a few defensive issues, where he is also improving).
@gt12 obviously he passes the ball, what I’m getting at is the effectiveness of his passes and setting up players around him, most importantly his wingers. The fact that Caleb Clarke (one of the most destructive wingers in the game at the moment) hasn’t really made a mark on this competition through lack of ball tells me something.
Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s a tactical decision by the Blues not to feed their wingers. Odd to me though when you have someone like Caleb out there waiting to cause havoc.
OR maybe I’m wrong again and it’s actually Caleb not looking for work. I just feel if the Blues are going to get to that next level they must get that area right in their game because both players are potent and the Blues could make the very best teams look silly if they can sort it.
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@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.
@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.
I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.
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@gt12 obviously he passes the ball, what I’m getting at is the effectiveness of his passes and setting up players around him, most importantly his wingers. The fact that Caleb Clarke (one of the most destructive wingers in the game at the moment) hasn’t really made a mark on this competition through lack of ball tells me something.
Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s a tactical decision by the Blues not to feed their wingers. Odd to me though when you have someone like Caleb out there waiting to cause havoc.
OR maybe I’m wrong again and it’s actually Caleb not looking for work. I just feel if the Blues are going to get to that next level they must get that area right in their game because both players are potent and the Blues could make the very best teams look silly if they can sort it.
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@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.
I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.
@dan54 said in Blues 2021:
I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.
It looks like he has tried. The quote from Caleb himself says a lot about how heavily he is marked now. When he moves he is being watched very closely, and he is most likely not just outside Rieko, so blaming Caleb's lack of potency this year on Rieko seems wrong.
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@dan54 said in Blues 2021:
I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.
It looks like he has tried. The quote from Caleb himself says a lot about how heavily he is marked now. When he moves he is being watched very closely, and he is most likely not just outside Rieko, so blaming Caleb's lack of potency this year on Rieko seems wrong.
@snowy still, Ioane is a hell of a long way off being an All Black centre, let alone a good one. I’d put my money on Clarke being more effective if he had someone with a few more brain cells creating space for him. Ioane is too much of a show pony.
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@dan54 said in Blues 2021:
I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.
It looks like he has tried. The quote from Caleb himself says a lot about how heavily he is marked now. When he moves he is being watched very closely, and he is most likely not just outside Rieko, so blaming Caleb's lack of potency this year on Rieko seems wrong.
@snowy said in Blues 2021:
@dan54 said in Blues 2021:
I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.
It looks like he has tried. The quote from Caleb himself says a lot about how heavily he is marked now. When he moves he is being watched very closely, and he is most likely not just outside Rieko, so blaming Caleb's lack of potency this year on Rieko seems wrong.
People seem to have short memories too. It's just a couple of games ago he looked sharp against the Highlanders and was popping up all over the field.
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@snowy still, Ioane is a hell of a long way off being an All Black centre, let alone a good one. I’d put my money on Clarke being more effective if he had someone with a few more brain cells creating space for him. Ioane is too much of a show pony.
@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
@snowy still, Ioane is a hell of a long way off being an All Black centre, let alone a good one. I’d put my money on Clarke being more effective if he had someone with a few more brains creating space for him.
He might be close to being selected as an AB 13 because we are running out of options.
As for having brains (a harsh term), that's mostly experience in the role to get it right. We have had midfield problems for years and it is frustrating because the coaches never settle on a combination. AB or Blues (Nonu / Smith excepted).
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@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
@snowy still, Ioane is a hell of a long way off being an All Black centre, let alone a good one. I’d put my money on Clarke being more effective if he had someone with a few more brains creating space for him.
He might be close to being selected as an AB 13 because we are running out of options.
As for having brains (a harsh term), that's mostly experience in the role to get it right. We have had midfield problems for years and it is frustrating because the coaches never settle on a combination. AB or Blues (Nonu / Smith excepted).
@snowy Ioane is like Laumape for the Canes. They are both attacking minded and weapons in their own right but when they have been asked to step up in the ‘thinking’ department of their respective games I think they have fallen short. But hey, with the injuries at play they may both yet start for the All Blacks which would be a fairly interesting combination to say the least.
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@snowy Ioane is like Laumape for the Canes. They are both attacking minded and weapons in their own right but when they have been asked to step up in the ‘thinking’ department of their respective games I think they have fallen short. But hey, with the injuries at play they may both yet start for the All Blacks which would be a fairly interesting combination to say the least.
@canes4life said in Blues 2021:
@snowy Ioane is like Laumape for the Canes. They are both attacking minded and weapons in their own right but when they have been asked to step up in the ‘thinking’ department of their respective games I think they have fallen short. But hey, with the injuries at play they may both yet start for the All Blacks which would be a fairly interesting combination to say the least.
Tough to defend against them both, on the other hand I wouldn't be convinced about our defence.
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@chris said in Blues 2021:
@nzzp said in Blues 2021:
@chris I don't think you can lay the blame at the feet of Rieko. I'm thinking of a back 3 that gets back and counterattacks strongly, returns kicks well, kicks well for territory.
Perofeta was solid at times doing some of those, but frankly I expected more from those lads. Rieko wasn't amazing yet, but solid enough with distribution.
My other point is Reiko a product of what is happening from 9 to 12,
2/8/9/10 ... and then 12
Seriously, though, I think Rieko's B+ and knocking on the door of the ABs. He brings solid defence and a speed opportunity that is rare. He's on the way up. Distribution took a step up again, and I'd say is one of the easier things for a good coaching group to keep improving. If you have to trade off an inexperienced 12 or 13 at the top level, I prefer ALB/RIoane to Havili/ALB... but ultimately it's up to the coaches.
@nzzp said in Blues 2021:
Seriously, though, I think Rieko's B+ and knocking on the door of the ABs. He brings solid defence and a speed opportunity that is rare. He's on the way up. Distribution took a step up again, and I'd say is one of the easier things for a good coaching group to keep improving. If you have to trade off an inexperienced 12 or 13 at the top level, I prefer ALB/RIoane to Havili/ALB... but ultimately it's up to the coaches.
Good summary. I think those three players will be in the 23. Havili/Ioane would also work but there's no way ALB misses out on starting
