Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
well, shit I'm still steaming.
I'm pissed, and the reason is that all of this was called in advance. Players picked out of position, poor game plan and dumb rugby - everything we feared about Foster's All Blacks. We had better players than Australia, but they were clearly better coached and it showed. Up for it? Not sure we were in the same way.
Positives
Cane was outstanding. If you wanted a leader look at that bastard. Worked his guts out.
Defence was really solid. Some freakish tries (following interesting ref calls) to get there.
Um, I'm struggling after thatNegatives
Players out of position killed us. Jordie, Ardie, Goodhue in particular
Forwards were good without being dominant
Mo'unga chose a bad time to shit the bed.
Gameplan was terrible (what gameplan), and the lack of rugby nous in fielding kicks had me yelling at the TV. Seriously, with the wind behind them, how the hell do you let a farking dropout from the 22 go over your head, and basically gift Aus 40 m and possession. My. Head. Exploded.
Lack of a dropgoal at the end. Have we learned nothing from SA a few years ago? Seriously? FFS people, get betterWe did well living on scraps, offense looked great in the first 40. Rieko needs to learn how to put the ball down.
Unlike @tim I'm OK with Frizzel; he just smashed into people all night.Argh, I'm really annoyed. Win here was important. God knows we need to get up next week
But how good was that Aggies win over the Gators!!
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
But how good was that Aggies win over the Gators!!
Result! I watched a bit of Miami-Clemson ... Clemson just dismantled them, and Miami struggled to fire a shot. Defence got ripped.
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@Crazy-Horse Aaron Smith does have a habit of trying to do too much, when his first role should be give the ball to the 10. He box-kicked heaps from our 22 when I would've preferred he give it to RM. Maybe Nugget is the issue?
@westcoastie said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Crazy-Horse Aaron Smith does have a habit of trying to do too much, when his first role should be give the ball to the 10. He box-kicked heaps from our 22 when I would've preferred he give it to RM. Maybe Nugget is the issue?
If we are kicking from our 22, I 100% want the halfback to do it. Why pass it back 10 meters to do the same thing. Only want it going to 10 in those situations when need to open the angle.
That's pretty standard from all teams in modern rugby because of the allowed blockers.
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To be honest I think the problems were more game plan oriented than the personnel we selected.
We seemed to not play to our strengths with those we selected, I don't think the issues were Jordie, Ardie, Goodhue or Ioane being selected out of position, they are all quality players and none of them on thier own were poor nor the cause of the
lossdraw (sure point to Ioanes error, but it kinda summed up the accuracy of the team as a whole)Not sure we will see too much change either, maybe Clarke over Bridge, or Ioane back to 11, but if Foster is showing a similar pattern and style to Hansen, I expect we may see the same team rolled out.
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I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.
That whole process - forking out money to Apple :angry_face: - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.
And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs
As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.
Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.
Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.
He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice
) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball
Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.
EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.
That whole process - forking out money to Apple :angry_face: - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.
And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs
As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.
Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.
Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.
He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice
) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball
Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.
EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.
Oh no! A new amateur ref who suddenly thinks he knows it all. The worst kind of armchair commentator!
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To be honest I think the problems were more game plan oriented than the personnel we selected.
We seemed to not play to our strengths with those we selected, I don't think the issues were Jordie, Ardie, Goodhue or Ioane being selected out of position, they are all quality players and none of them on thier own were poor nor the cause of the
lossdraw (sure point to Ioanes error, but it kinda summed up the accuracy of the team as a whole)Not sure we will see too much change either, maybe Clarke over Bridge, or Ioane back to 11, but if Foster is showing a similar pattern and style to Hansen, I expect we may see the same team rolled out.
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
To be honest I think the problems were more game plan oriented than the personnel we selected.
Yeah, partly. Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Look, despite the poor play, we got dominated in possession and territory, and still should have won that going away. The upside for NZ is there, and a lot is goign to be fixed - particularly RIoane's defence ... he's early in his 13 career.
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@Mokey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bridge isn't fast enough to be a test winger.
both our wingers today are painfully slow
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bridge isn't fast enough to be a test winger.
both our wingers today are painfully slow
Stats for Bridge say otherwise. But not elusive.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bridge isn't fast enough to be a test winger.
both our wingers today are painfully slow
Stats for Bridge say otherwise. But not elusive.
@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bridge isn't fast enough to be a test winger.
both our wingers today are painfully slow
Stats for Bridge say otherwise. But not elusive.
Bridge isn't slow. He's a safe selection - in theory a low error rate. It's just galling to see a bloke who struggles to beat someone one on one picked as our left wing. Hell, Ben Smith beat a shedload of tacklers; I've not seen that from Bridge.
Next week I wouldn't be surprised to see Clarke left wing, JB right and BB at fullback.
Honest to god, Foster seems to have taken Goodhue who was looking like a world class centre at times (his performance 2 years ago against SA at the Cake Tin was sensational, particularly on defence), and shifted him into 12. It's like watching pre-MacDonald Tana coach at the Blues at times.
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Pretty good game to watch. Couldn't believe the weak move by Aussie at the end, showing that they don't believe they are good enough.
@Hooroo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Pretty good game to watch. Couldn't believe the weak move by Aussie at the end, showing that they don't believe they are good enough.
Not sure if you're trolling. But in a 4 match series, an away draw is a good result. I'd take it, especially if behind my own goal line 8 minutes into overtime. Good clear thinking by Oz decision makers, worryingly I have some doubts we'd have done the same.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
To be honest I think the problems were more game plan oriented than the personnel we selected.
Yeah, partly. Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Look, despite the poor play, we got dominated in possession and territory, and still should have won that going away. The upside for NZ is there, and a lot is goign to be fixed - particularly RIoane's defence ... he's early in his 13 career.
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.
@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.
Clarke's chase from the first kickoff he was on the field was electric - he just smashed the receiver inside the 22. Great effort
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Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO
Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.
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@Tim said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
We've had no penetration since Ioane went off.
Until Clarke came on. Love in a few years to see him at 12...
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The disappointing aspect was that the starting team was never selected to penetrate. The coaches were way too conservative and took the gamble that shutting the Aussies down with experience and 'solidity' would be sufficient. We could then feed off their errors. It kind of worked for 41 minutes but then they found their own rhythm and we started to lose ours.
We needed a 10 point buffer at half time given the conditions so containment was a poor strategy. -
@No-Quarter I couldn't agree more, the best 12 and 13 combos have had specialists in those positions that work well as a unit, Little Bunce, Nonu Smith, Horan Little. We seemed to have found a very good 13 in Goodhue who was solid on D and straight on attack. Yet we seem to have fuked him around with multiple partners and now moving him to 12.
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@Kirwan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
So who would have though James Fucking O’Conner would have completely outplayed an All Black ten?
the new mature James O'Connor is actually producing on his never doubted talent
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
So who would have though James Fucking O’Conner would have completely outplayed an All Black ten?
the new mature James O'Connor is actually producing on his never doubted talent
I'm pleased because he certainly lost his way big time. Kudos to Rennie for handing him the cutter.
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@Stag 40% possession is pretty common for the ABs for years, that's not a real problem. It's getting through the line, nobody was really doing that
@Machpants said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Stag 40% possession is pretty common for the ABs for years, that's not a real problem. It's getting through the line, nobody was really doing that
Seemed there was a deliberate plan to cut out Jack and go straight to Roane.
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Now that the emotion has died down.
I really enjoyed that test and further more had we lost , Would not have bothered me the least .
Thought the Wallabies were tremendous and I have always said, regardless of what we think of the standard of their rugby , it’s only takes a squad of 23 on the day to do the job.
First order of business from an All Blacks piece , and this is what really worries me under Foster you have got to earn the right to go wide, if it means means doing a bit more work up front then so be it.
To be honest when I first saw the All Black team that was named for the test , I was quite underwhelmed ..
I thought it was the perfect opportunity as the Wallabies did to promote a couple of youngsters into the starting XV , Wil Jordon and Caleb Clark come to mind and I would have just left D.Mac on the bench and not played Bridge at all.
Fosters conservative approach concerns me.Thinking back on super rugby watching many of the NZ contests which were fast paced and highly skilled compared to the Australian comp which at times could be a grind especially when watching the Brumbies with lineout drives and mauls and holding on to the ball for long periods ,but if you really think about it .
Which style is closer to test Rugby ..?.
The Wallabies I thought we’re a lot better than I thought they would be , but on saying that as proven when Rennie took over the Chiefs ironically from Foster he selected a group of players from all over the country and bought them together win a title in his very first year , sure you had Wayne Smith in the background but at the end of the day this was Rennies team .Really liked the way their forwards went about their work ,Harry Wilson running in the wide channels was superb ,Only 20 years old , Lukhan Salakaia Loto was an absolute beast and his his locking partner Matt Philip has got some work rate and Taniela Tupou being used as a first receiver dragged in at least 3 tacklers was a master stroke in terms of coaching
Add in Nick White who was superb behind the Wallabies pack , Dalgunu on the wing looks a handful and Tom Banks at the back is safe as houses at the back superb under the highball and has a massive punt .
Plenty of pluses for the visitors .it seems as though Rennie has got buy in from this squad which for an outside coach is your first victory.
