Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bridge isn't fast enough to be a test winger.
both our wingers today are painfully slow
Stats for Bridge say otherwise. But not elusive.
@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Mokey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bridge isn't fast enough to be a test winger.
both our wingers today are painfully slow
Stats for Bridge say otherwise. But not elusive.
Bridge isn't slow. He's a safe selection - in theory a low error rate. It's just galling to see a bloke who struggles to beat someone one on one picked as our left wing. Hell, Ben Smith beat a shedload of tacklers; I've not seen that from Bridge.
Next week I wouldn't be surprised to see Clarke left wing, JB right and BB at fullback.
Honest to god, Foster seems to have taken Goodhue who was looking like a world class centre at times (his performance 2 years ago against SA at the Cake Tin was sensational, particularly on defence), and shifted him into 12. It's like watching pre-MacDonald Tana coach at the Blues at times.
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Pretty good game to watch. Couldn't believe the weak move by Aussie at the end, showing that they don't believe they are good enough.
@Hooroo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Pretty good game to watch. Couldn't believe the weak move by Aussie at the end, showing that they don't believe they are good enough.
Not sure if you're trolling. But in a 4 match series, an away draw is a good result. I'd take it, especially if behind my own goal line 8 minutes into overtime. Good clear thinking by Oz decision makers, worryingly I have some doubts we'd have done the same.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
To be honest I think the problems were more game plan oriented than the personnel we selected.
Yeah, partly. Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Look, despite the poor play, we got dominated in possession and territory, and still should have won that going away. The upside for NZ is there, and a lot is goign to be fixed - particularly RIoane's defence ... he's early in his 13 career.
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
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@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.
@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking
Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them
I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.
Clarke's chase from the first kickoff he was on the field was electric - he just smashed the receiver inside the 22. Great effort
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Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO
Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.
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The disappointing aspect was that the starting team was never selected to penetrate. The coaches were way too conservative and took the gamble that shutting the Aussies down with experience and 'solidity' would be sufficient. We could then feed off their errors. It kind of worked for 41 minutes but then they found their own rhythm and we started to lose ours.
We needed a 10 point buffer at half time given the conditions so containment was a poor strategy. -
@No-Quarter I couldn't agree more, the best 12 and 13 combos have had specialists in those positions that work well as a unit, Little Bunce, Nonu Smith, Horan Little. We seemed to have found a very good 13 in Goodhue who was solid on D and straight on attack. Yet we seem to have fuked him around with multiple partners and now moving him to 12.
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@Kirwan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
So who would have though James Fucking O’Conner would have completely outplayed an All Black ten?
the new mature James O'Connor is actually producing on his never doubted talent
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
So who would have though James Fucking O’Conner would have completely outplayed an All Black ten?
the new mature James O'Connor is actually producing on his never doubted talent
I'm pleased because he certainly lost his way big time. Kudos to Rennie for handing him the cutter.
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@Stag 40% possession is pretty common for the ABs for years, that's not a real problem. It's getting through the line, nobody was really doing that
@Machpants said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Stag 40% possession is pretty common for the ABs for years, that's not a real problem. It's getting through the line, nobody was really doing that
Seemed there was a deliberate plan to cut out Jack and go straight to Roane.
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Now that the emotion has died down.
I really enjoyed that test and further more had we lost , Would not have bothered me the least .
Thought the Wallabies were tremendous and I have always said, regardless of what we think of the standard of their rugby , it’s only takes a squad of 23 on the day to do the job.
First order of business from an All Blacks piece , and this is what really worries me under Foster you have got to earn the right to go wide, if it means means doing a bit more work up front then so be it.
To be honest when I first saw the All Black team that was named for the test , I was quite underwhelmed ..
I thought it was the perfect opportunity as the Wallabies did to promote a couple of youngsters into the starting XV , Wil Jordon and Caleb Clark come to mind and I would have just left D.Mac on the bench and not played Bridge at all.
Fosters conservative approach concerns me.Thinking back on super rugby watching many of the NZ contests which were fast paced and highly skilled compared to the Australian comp which at times could be a grind especially when watching the Brumbies with lineout drives and mauls and holding on to the ball for long periods ,but if you really think about it .
Which style is closer to test Rugby ..?.
The Wallabies I thought we’re a lot better than I thought they would be , but on saying that as proven when Rennie took over the Chiefs ironically from Foster he selected a group of players from all over the country and bought them together win a title in his very first year , sure you had Wayne Smith in the background but at the end of the day this was Rennies team .Really liked the way their forwards went about their work ,Harry Wilson running in the wide channels was superb ,Only 20 years old , Lukhan Salakaia Loto was an absolute beast and his his locking partner Matt Philip has got some work rate and Taniela Tupou being used as a first receiver dragged in at least 3 tacklers was a master stroke in terms of coaching
Add in Nick White who was superb behind the Wallabies pack , Dalgunu on the wing looks a handful and Tom Banks at the back is safe as houses at the back superb under the highball and has a massive punt .
Plenty of pluses for the visitors .it seems as though Rennie has got buy in from this squad which for an outside coach is your first victory. -
I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.
That whole process - forking out money to Apple :angry_face: - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.
And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs
As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.
Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.
Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.
He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice
) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball
Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.
EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.
@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.
That whole process - forking out money to Apple :angry_face: - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.
And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs
As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.
Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.
Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.
He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice
) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball
Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.
EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.
Didn't you think the Wallabies showed some steel? Sure, lineouts in particular and ruck work need some attention, but I'd have thought you'd feel in with a chance next week?
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All that said: you'd have to say that is a fair result in that NEITHER team deserved to win.
Wallabies lineout and ruck work was bad. The backline had a couple of flashes running that short side, but were given a mountain of possession and achieved very little with it prior to the rain hitting. The scrum was inconsistent (even if Ofa gamed the ref into giving some short arms), and the work off the back of said scrum was ponderous.
White's long passing game was sub-par but his running was good. Option taking from Toomua was often poor. JOC was solid but not spectacular. I thought Paisami was workable and Daugunu was rocks and diamonds - that offload to DMac when he made a break was crap, but he skinned the defender a couple of times with pace and a bit of good work from his inside men. Forward pack was OK bar the lineout - I thought Matt Philip and Harry Wilson were very good on the carry.
Overall surprised Wallabies were still in it despite operating a couple gears lower than the ABs. But our handling seems to have improved bar a couple of absolutely howlers (that set move before halftime).
Speaking of whom: handling errors must have been killers for you guys. I think ?9? in the first half alone? Very much NOT like an AB team and you'd have to say the crucial one was the dropped ball over the tryline. Sorry Rieko but the game is about more than your hairstyle getting messed up, sunshine.
When they had the ball, the decision making was rapid and generally accurate from Smith but everything else was a bit meh. Besides the first try they didn't really execute a backline move with precision and there wasn't much first phase attack that really stood out. Defensively very good which you kind of expect these days.
Sam Cane was a fucking monster and easily MOTM for me. The number of times he saved the collective arse of the national pride was sublime. Honourable mentions to Harry Wilson on debut.
Both teams will be better for it, but I think barring injury we'll see an unchanged Wallaby side in Auckland while the pressure will come to bear on Foster over what he picked for today and it'll put a laser focus on what he picks next week.
The issue for AB fans is this: after a close game against the Wallabies (or * gasp * a loss) they're used to their team absolutely smashing them next time. So it is a cliff face of expectation, and I know someone like Cane will relish that.
Foster? Not so sure.
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I attended at the stadium, had a seat almost behind the posts.
Interesting that from that angle and distance cannot observe any of the critisims of e.g. Mo'ouga and Savea etc that seem common. TBH, caketin is pretty crap.
My observations from end on. Early on in game - I thought Ioane bombed a certain 80 m try by going himself and not setting up Jordie (although doubts about Jordie's top end speed to go that distance). I was out of my seat, I was that certain the try was on.
I'd also think up-and-unders would be good options in swirling wind, and we tried a couple early both from 10 and box kick. But my end-on observation - my god the modern defence is so expert at blocking and shepherding chasers that it is no longer a good percentage option. Which is a shame as it adds variety to the sport. When that first up-an-under went up I got very excited but deflated when seeing how little pressure the chasers can put on.
I thought the NZ back 3 kick catching of the deep kicks in the swirling wind was excellent (apart from that god damn dropout).
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I attended at the stadium, had a seat almost behind the posts.
Interesting that from that angle and distance cannot observe any of the critisims of e.g. Mo'ouga and Savea etc that seem common. TBH, caketin is pretty crap.
My observations from end on. Early on in game - I thought Ioane bombed a certain 80 m try by going himself and not setting up Jordie (although doubts about Jordie's top end speed to go that distance). I was out of my seat, I was that certain the try was on.
I'd also think up-and-unders would be good options in swirling wind, and we tried a couple early both from 10 and box kick. But my end-on observation - my god the modern defence is so expert at blocking and shepherding chasers that it is no longer a good percentage option. Which is a shame as it adds variety to the sport. When that first up-an-under went up I got very excited but deflated when seeing how little pressure the chasers can put on.
I thought the NZ back 3 kick catching of the deep kicks in the swirling wind was excellent (apart from that god damn dropout).
@Rapido said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I attended at the stadium, had a seat almost behind the posts.
Interesting that from that angle and distance cannot observe any of the critisims of e.g. Mo'ouga and Savea etc that seem common. TBH, caketin is pretty crap.
My observations from end on. Early on in game - I thought Ioane bombed a certain 80 m try by going himself and not setting up Jordie (although doubts about Jordie's top end speed to go that distance). I was out of my seat, I was that certain the try was on.
I'd also think up and unders would be goo options in swirling wind, and we tried a couple early both from 10 and box kick. But my end-on observation - my god the modern defence is so expert at blocking and shepherding chasers that it is no longer a a good percentage option. Which is a shame as it adds variety to the sport. When that first up an under went up I got very excited but deflated when seeing how little pressure the chasers can put on.
I though the NZ back 3 kick catching of the deep kicks in the swirling wind was excellent (apart from that god damn dropout).
Interesting observation on Jordie. Does he take a bit longer than others to hit top speed.....or is he actually just not that quick ?
I think a backline always has potential issues when the quickest guy is wearing number 13....
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Hard to know what to make of that game, Wallabies should have won about three times, and should have lost about five times, and so on the balance of things I'll take the draw.
I was nervous about our team. For all the focus on AB selections here (and there were some definite head-scratchers) we picked a lot of new combos as well as three debutants and a few one-gamers. Normally the Wallabies take 2-3 games to get rid of the early rust, so to come out and face the ABs in Wellington first up... it had disaster written all over it.
But we played good, smart, committed rugby. I was really impressed with our kicking game, thanks to Banks, Toomua and White we genuinely used it as a weapon for the first time in what feels like decades (finally abandoning this 'Australian way' garbage). Also super impressed with Wilson and Daugunu in their first games, and JOC's control and patience at 10.
And then it came down to one kick from Hodge, which was a bees proverbial away from being one of the greatest place kicks of all time.
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@Nepia said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@rotated said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
The leader in the clubhouse for worst first year is Laurie Mains' and Fozzie ain't off to a good start.
Bit hard on Laurie, he had to mould together a new team against the current RWC holders after a disastrous ABs RWC campaign rife with division - and he lost 2-1 in one of the greatest and closest Bledisloe Cup series ever (I think the exact same number of points were scored by both teams and the biggest margin was 3 or 4).
It wasn't just the Bledisloe; they lost the midweek game to NSW, lost to World XV then lost to SA on reentry. They should have lost to Ireland in Dunedin that year too?
@rotated said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@Nepia said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
@rotated said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
The leader in the clubhouse for worst first year is Laurie Mains' and Fozzie ain't off to a good start.
Bit hard on Laurie, he had to mould together a new team against the current RWC holders after a disastrous ABs RWC campaign rife with division - and he lost 2-1 in one of the greatest and closest Bledisloe Cup series ever (I think the exact same number of points were scored by both teams and the biggest margin was 3 or 4).
It wasn't just the Bledisloe; they lost the midweek game to NSW, lost to World XV then lost to SA on reentry. They should have lost to Ireland in Dunedin that year too?
Your memory is faulty, they didn't lose to the Boks and it was actually Sydney they lost to in the midweek game, not NSW.
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I remember when Wallabies used to select the likes of DHP on the wing and the ABs would select strike wingers.
Now it's the reverse - what a complete mess.
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:
I remember when Wallabies used to select the likes of DHP on the wing and the ABs would select strike wingers.
Now it's the reverse - what a complete mess.
We're still not perfect. The XV on the weekend had the Rebels 10 at 12, last year's Wallaby 13 at 10, the Reds number 8 at blindside, and last year's blindside in the second row.
