Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October
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Like every fucking Law in Rugby, there is a flexible standard you can apply.
Ultimately I'd only count scrums lost where you actually complete the scrum and lose your feed - which is easy to avoid if you concede the penalty
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
Ultimately I'd only count scrums lost where you actually complete the scrum and lose your feed - which is easy to avoid if you concede the penalty
Yeah, which means you lost the scrum I reckon. Conceding the penalty is surely worse than the opposition getting messy ball that they weren't prepared for anymore than your own defence was. It's such a rare event at top levels anyway.
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
Ultimately I'd only count scrums lost where you actually complete the scrum and lose your feed - which is easy to avoid if you concede the penalty
Yeah, which means you lost the scrum I reckon. Conceding the penalty is surely worse than the opposition getting messy ball that they weren't prepared for anymore than your own defence was. It's such a rare event at top levels anyway.
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
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@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA he was a great ref
Had a good manner with the players, IMHO because he was a player. I think with fast tracking refs these days we lose some of that.
I'm fit enough to ref lower divisions at the moment, but to get into the upper echelons you need to do some pretty sharp numbers on the training paddock.
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA he was a great ref
Had a good manner with the players, IMHO because he was a player. I think with fast tracking refs these days we lose some of that.
I'm fit enough to ref lower divisions at the moment, but to get into the upper echelons you need to do some pretty sharp numbers on the training paddock.
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA he was a great ref
Had a good manner with the players, IMHO because he was a player. I think with fast tracking refs these days we lose some of that.
I'm fit enough to ref lower divisions at the moment, but to get into the upper echelons you need to do some pretty sharp numbers on the training paddock.
Yes. He and Norling were as good as anyone. Nigel is also good. The Sandy haired Aussie Stu what's his name was good early on then it seemed to go to his head later, same as our Kiwi ref that ended up leaving NZ for Aussie under a cloud. After allowing 7 minutes of extra time in Wellington that gave Eales the chance to kick the Aussies to victory I can say nice things about Kaplan
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA he was a great ref
Had a good manner with the players, IMHO because he was a player. I think with fast tracking refs these days we lose some of that.
I'm fit enough to ref lower divisions at the moment, but to get into the upper echelons you need to do some pretty sharp numbers on the training paddock.
Yes. He and Norling were as good as anyone. Nigel is also good. The Sandy haired Aussie Stu what's his name was good early on then it seemed to go to his head later, same as our Kiwi ref that ended up leaving NZ for Aussie under a cloud. After allowing 7 minutes of extra time in Wellington that gave Eales the chance to kick the Aussies to victory I can say nice things about Kaplan
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
After allowing 7 minutes of extra time in Wellington that gave Eales the chance to kick the Aussies to victory I can say nice things about Kaplan
He paid you back by giving 700 last final definitely not going to put up with it any more warnings to McCaw over the subsequent decade
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA he was a great ref
Had a good manner with the players, IMHO because he was a player. I think with fast tracking refs these days we lose some of that.
I'm fit enough to ref lower divisions at the moment, but to get into the upper echelons you need to do some pretty sharp numbers on the training paddock.
Yes. He and Norling were as good as anyone. Nigel is also good. The Sandy haired Aussie Stu what's his name was good early on then it seemed to go to his head later, same as our Kiwi ref that ended up leaving NZ for Aussie under a cloud. After allowing 7 minutes of extra time in Wellington that gave Eales the chance to kick the Aussies to victory I can say nice things about Kaplan
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
The Sandy haired Aussie Stu what's his name was good early on then it seemed to go to his head later, same as our Kiwi ref that ended up leaving NZ for Aussie under a cloud
Dickinson.
And Steve Walsh
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
The Sandy haired Aussie Stu what's his name was good early on then it seemed to go to his head later, same as our Kiwi ref that ended up leaving NZ for Aussie under a cloud
Dickinson.
And Steve Walsh
My mind is going to mush these days
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@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
After allowing 7 minutes of extra time in Wellington that gave Eales the chance to kick the Aussies to victory I can say nice things about Kaplan
He paid you back by giving 700 last final definitely not going to put up with it any more warnings to McCaw over the subsequent decade
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@canefan said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
After allowing 7 minutes of extra time in Wellington that gave Eales the chance to kick the Aussies to victory I can say nice things about Kaplan
He paid you back by giving 700 last final definitely not going to put up with it any more warnings to McCaw over the subsequent decade
You only remember the slights. Same with Wayne Barnes
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@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
Scrums are a lot different to the days Erickson was a player and also reffing.
And speaking of his reffing, let’s not forget the absolute howler of a try he awarded to France against the ABs in 2000...
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@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
Scrums are a lot different to the days Erickson was a player and also reffing.
And speaking of his reffing, let’s not forget the absolute howler of a try he awarded to France against the ABs in 2000...
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
Scrums are a lot different to the days Erickson was a player and also reffing.
My theory being any ref who was a prop and transitioned to refereeing would be better placed than someone who never propped
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
Scrums are a lot different to the days Erickson was a player and also reffing.
My theory being any ref who was a prop and transitioned to refereeing would be better placed than someone who never propped
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
Scrums are a lot different to the days Erickson was a player and also reffing.
My theory being any ref who was a prop and transitioned to refereeing would be better placed than someone who never propped
you say that, but have they been on courses to get qualified, and how is their powerpoint game?
tongue obviously very in cheek.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@NTA said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Snowy it's messy. You could concede the penalty when the ball is under your second row and your prop loses his bind.
Remember we're dealing with refs here, and none of them have had a single clue about scrums since Wayne "Gus" Erickson (Aussie ref and ex prop) retired
Scrums are a lot different to the days Erickson was a player and also reffing.
My theory being any ref who was a prop and transitioned to refereeing would be better placed than someone who never propped
@NTA I learnt alot about the front row through coaching kids, particularly the past 2 seasons being contested...I did get asked to play fornt row once, I declined
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@Frank said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
What a shit game.
The first half was bad, highlighted by the dogshit first quarter. Errors, shit play, more errors.
Considering the scoreline we were crap. The wallabies basically gift wrapped our points, especially the first 26. Unforced error after Unforced error. We can't even take credit for forcing the error, we just waited for their kids to fuck up. And they did, a lot. Then missed a tackle.
When we were forced to play phases and create, we did nothing, for 40 minutes. The wallabies made their front on tackles, and were forced in to box kicks. Or made our own error. It was just shit.
On a couple of players.
Goodhue is painfully slow. Gor burned for the Wallabie try, and on a kick chase got burned by everyone
Seriously, can we not find a better halfback than TJP? His passing is fucking bad. The drop when Smith goes off is massive.Glad I didn't go out of my way to watch live.
Someone woken up on the wrong side of bed this morning?
Miserable fluffybunny.Which bit is wrong?
Watching AB players score pretty tries against witches hats when handed the ball is nothing new.
Watching us do fuck all the rest of the game is pretty ordinary
We were far better a fortnight ago
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@Frank said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Three: Sydney, 31 October:
What a shit game.
The first half was bad, highlighted by the dogshit first quarter. Errors, shit play, more errors.
Considering the scoreline we were crap. The wallabies basically gift wrapped our points, especially the first 26. Unforced error after Unforced error. We can't even take credit for forcing the error, we just waited for their kids to fuck up. And they did, a lot. Then missed a tackle.
When we were forced to play phases and create, we did nothing, for 40 minutes. The wallabies made their front on tackles, and were forced in to box kicks. Or made our own error. It was just shit.
On a couple of players.
Goodhue is painfully slow. Gor burned for the Wallabie try, and on a kick chase got burned by everyone
Seriously, can we not find a better halfback than TJP? His passing is fucking bad. The drop when Smith goes off is massive.Glad I didn't go out of my way to watch live.
Someone woken up on the wrong side of bed this morning?
Miserable fluffybunny.Which bit is wrong?
Watching AB players score pretty tries against witches hats when handed the ball is nothing new.
Watching us do fuck all the rest of the game is pretty ordinary
We were far better a fortnight ago
I'm not convinced we were that much better a fortnight ago. In my write up from that game I said it felt like we relied on individual brilliance to actually get into the match, the Wallabies were dominating up until Beauden and Clarke produced some magic from broken play.
You are only as good as what you play in front of you, but this Wallabies team is really weak and their defense can be utterly woeful at times. The first test, where the weather played its part, showed we haven't developed a gameplan for breaking defenses down when the going gets tough.
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Cole no try, try.
To me it was clearly a try
But here's an article on this try / no try.
But as the All Blacks were running back to halfway Australian TMO Angus Gardner told O’Keeffe to check the grounding on the replays.
“The ball is in the air, I don't believe the player has control of the ball," Gardner told O'Keeffe, effectively overruling his decision.
After watching the replays, O'Keeffe agreed and disallowed the try (although you could argue Gardner's intervention left him with little choice).
There is where the decision gets problematic, on two fronts.
First, the laws of the game make no mention of the word “control” when it comes to scoring a try, just that the player has contact with ball with their hands, arms, fingers or even chest as it touches the ground.
Coles appears to do just that.
Second, and this is where the inconsistency has crept in, when the onfield decision is ‘try' in Super Rugby Aotearoa or Mitre 10 Cup, the referees have needed conclusive proof on the replay to overrule the original decision.
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Cole no try, try.
To me it was clearly a try
But here's an article on this try / no try.
But as the All Blacks were running back to halfway Australian TMO Angus Gardner told O’Keeffe to check the grounding on the replays.
“The ball is in the air, I don't believe the player has control of the ball," Gardner told O'Keeffe, effectively overruling his decision.
After watching the replays, O'Keeffe agreed and disallowed the try (although you could argue Gardner's intervention left him with little choice).
There is where the decision gets problematic, on two fronts.
First, the laws of the game make no mention of the word “control” when it comes to scoring a try, just that the player has contact with ball with their hands, arms, fingers or even chest as it touches the ground.
Coles appears to do just that.
Second, and this is where the inconsistency has crept in, when the onfield decision is ‘try' in Super Rugby Aotearoa or Mitre 10 Cup, the referees have needed conclusive proof on the replay to overrule the original decision.
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@Winger I said it was a clear try at the time, but as I had been drinking for a fair few hours with five Wallaby supporters, I wasn't vociferous in my protestations in order to give my mates some hope.
@antipodean I agree completely. No separation between ball and hand, ball+ground+hand = try.
