Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
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@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
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Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
@reprobate said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
We are turning into England.
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@Kirwan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
They keep showing Jordan’s trys on social media, think that’s the best Nisbo commentary in years.
Reminds me of the 2000 Lomu “You betcha” call.
I know people get down on Marshall around here, but I loved his "go boy!" for BB in the 2015 RWC Final
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Kirwan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
They keep showing Jordan’s trys on social media, think that’s the best Nisbo commentary in years.
Reminds me of the 2000 Lomu “You betcha” call.
I know people get down on Marshall around here, but I loved his "go boy!" for BB in the 2015 RWC Final
There's some footage of Nisbo and Marshy commentating Beaudy's try at the end, which I can't find.
Great stuff!
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You could see that try coming as soon as Arg tried to play catch up. I won a shot of whiskey at the pub.
Some Scott b analysis
https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/11/30/did-scott-barrett-just-win-ian-foster-one-more-year/
@Machpants won him 1 more year, he has 1 more year to run, no way was he gonna be fired, win or lose.
All it has done is relieved the pressure a wee bit, for now.
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
I'd tend to say the same about Handre Pollard, but no-one else seemed to have a problem with him being suggested.
In reality, it is probably Farrell - but, I will take Mo'unga and Barrett as 2nd and 3rd - and a caveat that I haven't seen Ntamack.
Maybe Sexton isn't cooked, but I think he is.
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Pollard, Farrell, and Ntamack are all much better players who possess games much more suited to test rugby than Mo'unga. Not even close.
It would like saying that Barrett or Tuitupou were better locks than Itoje.
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@Tim Absolute bolloocks, Tim!
Pollard - a world beater! Christ Almighty - we've seen heaps of him! Where's he been hiding for five years!
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@Chris-B Playing against the good version of Barrett. He was very, very good last year. Compare with any of Mo'unga's play under pressure. There is no comparison between the two.
@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B Playing against the good version of Barrett. He was very, very good last year. Compare with any of Mo'unga's play under pressure. There is no comparison between the two.
Richie vs SA 2 wins, 1 draw, 0 losses
Handre vs NZ 2 wins, 1 draw, 7 lossesDo you want to discuss the quality of the respective forward packs they played behind last year?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handré_Pollard
Winning record 58%.
He's lost to Argentina twice. He's lost to Wales three times.
He's lost 19 tests.
Please!
@Chris-B South Africa were in complete disarray for several years, only getting their act together again in the last two seasons. Last year only the rugby world cup counted, and Pollard played brilliantly, whereas Mo'unga was awful and anonymous when it counted.
NZ used to beat South Africa by scores like 57 - 0 (2017) until Erasmus turned the team around. Aggregate comparisons over that period are useless.
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@Chris-B South Africa were in complete disarray for several years, only getting their act together again in the last two seasons. Last year only the rugby world cup counted, and Pollard played brilliantly, whereas Mo'unga was awful and anonymous when it counted.
NZ used to beat South Africa by scores like 57 - 0 (2017) until Erasmus turned the team around. Aggregate comparisons over that period are useless.
@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B Last year only the rugby world cup counted, and Pollard played brilliantly, whereas Mo'unga was awful and anonymous when it counted.
I'm not really having that.
The Boks had a dominant pack and much of their play came off Faf and Willie le Roux.
They lost to us, they took ages to subdue the Japanese and they scraped past Wales. They beat England convincingly in the end, but again that was on the back of a dominant forward pack, staunch defense and Rassie outsmarting Eddie.
Handre did kick his goals, though.
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Other interesting stats that jump out is the effort to use Clarke more. He had 13 runs (2nd to Ardie Savea with 15) and 84 metres with two clean breaks and 4 defenders beaten. He also had at least one very good high ball take, and didn't miss a tackle. Apart from two turnovers, he was just excellent.
@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Other interesting stats that jump out is the effort to use Clarke more. He had 13 runs (2nd to Ardie Savea with 15) and 84 metres with two clean breaks and 4 defenders beaten. He also had at least one very good high ball take, and didn't miss a tackle. Apart from two turnovers, he was just excellent.
Was thinking that too. People seem to focus on his spectacular runs, but as you say, he's an excellent all round player. Very solid on defence.
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@booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Winger You mean the tight game that Jordan blew up to 38-0 when he came on?
You realise he scored 2 tries and set up the 3rd to make it 38-0 right? You know he didnt come in 80th minute right?Yeah it was really fucking nail-biting stuff at 17-0, 70% possession, 80% territory and Argentina having made nearly four times as many tackles as us. So surprised that our bench players made an impact given how tight it was.
Jordan did make those tries out of nothing. He wasn't helped to some cushy tries by his team mates.
I kind of agree with @Winger 's reply to this.
His team mates forced the Argies to trying some desperate tactics. Jordan didn't make them on his own.
Jordan showed great anticipation, aggression, timing, ball skills, and speed. Jordie would not have made those tries in minutes 1, 2, or 80. When Jordan sped away the Argie 15 (and was it a wing?) had plenty of time to catch up and they tried-they never gained ground on him. You can say it was tinny luck for both tries (not the help in the third) but Jordan had the skills to capitalize. He could well be found out defensively, he could be worse than Jordie at 15 at AB level. But at the moment we have no idea, and that is game six, and the season is over.
In that wing position though. who has played better for the ABs over the six games? It is criminal that sort of potential has not been tested earlier.@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
He could well be found out defensively, he could be worse than Jordie at 15 at AB level. But at the moment we have no idea, and that is game six, and the season is over.
Which speaks volumes for the coaching set-up.
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@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Blowing the kick wide to J Barrett, when 7 - 0 up, was so frustrating.
It wasn't "blowing" the kick that was frustrating, it was that we fucking attempted it! We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo, fucking Jordie was right up flat demanding it and his brother bloody well obliged.
Save that shit for your fucking backyard you stupid cnts
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
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Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
@reprobate yes our tactics were close to dogshit, but what I really don't like is our inability to choose other tactics in a timely and suitable fashion.
I did notice the Argies weren't shooting up from the line with their smothering tactics like they were a few weeks ago despite having 2/3 of the same loose forwards and Facundo Isa (who is supposed to be a quality player).. -
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
OMG, if you want to have some fun, choose a current World best and try to find them:
Maro Itoje is rated the fourth best blindside and does not feature in the top 10 locks
Great metric!
