Rugby Brain Injuries
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@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other.
I saw something similar in a story about NFL players - they found it wasn't the big ones that were getting guys: the continual smashing together on the scrimmage line over time was where the "floor" for CTE developed.
To me it made the argument for removing helmets and shoulder pads from NFL - remove the false sense of security.
Similarly in boxing, waaaaay back in the days when it was bareknuckle, hitting the head was often counter-productive as you'd like break a small bone in your hand. Not that having your ribs and organs smashed up was any better I guess...
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@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other.
I saw something similar in a story about NFL players - they found it wasn't the big ones that were getting guys: the continual smashing together on the scrimmage line over time was where the "floor" for CTE developed.
To me it made the argument for removing helmets and shoulder pads from NFL - remove the false sense of security.
Similarly in boxing, waaaaay back in the days when it was bareknuckle, hitting the head was often counter-productive as you'd like break a small bone in your hand. Not that having your ribs and organs smashed up was any better I guess...
@NTA said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other.
I saw something similar in a story about NFL players - they found it wasn't the big ones that were getting guys: the continual smashing together on the scrimmage line over time was where the "floor" for CTE developed.
To me it made the argument for removing helmets and shoulder pads from NFL - remove the false sense of security.
Pads and helmets for safety is such an American solution. Especially when you see what they do with them on the field
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It's a classic case of unintended consequences where protection becomes weaponized. Boxing gloves protect the weakest part and add weight at the end of the fulcrum. Shoulder pads and helmets protect people who throw themselves at their opponent like a missile.
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@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow was it North who had a couple several years back and appeared he went back on after being knocked out?
The best back from the ‘Tyson Fury’ dead must be George Smith.
The authorities knew better by this point.
@MiketheSnow said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow was it North who had a couple several years back and appeared he went back on after being knocked out?
I was at that game, and still remember seeing him come back on and thinking 'surely not'. And then as the play unfolded he was clearly still affected. Has stayed with me to this day.
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It's a classic case of unintended consequences where protection becomes weaponized. Boxing gloves protect the weakest part and add weight at the end of the fulcrum. Shoulder pads and helmets protect people who throw themselves at their opponent like a missile.
@antipodean said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
It's a classic case of unintended consequences where protection becomes weaponized. Boxing gloves protect the weakest part and add weight at the end of the fulcrum. Shoulder pads and helmets protect people who throw themselves at their opponent like a missile.
Watch NFL games and you realise how poor their tackling technique is. It's all head down pads down
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@MiketheSnow said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow was it North who had a couple several years back and appeared he went back on after being knocked out?
I was at that game, and still remember seeing him come back on and thinking 'surely not'. And then as the play unfolded he was clearly still affected. Has stayed with me to this day.
@barbarian said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow was it North who had a couple several years back and appeared he went back on after being knocked out?
I was at that game, and still remember seeing him come back on and thinking 'surely not'. And then as the play unfolded he was clearly still affected. Has stayed with me to this day.
it was an astoundingly poor decision
i wonder what Tatafu Polota-Nau's brain looks like?
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A bit more detail about the case etc. Didn;t realise the RPA in England was on the RFU’s books! Is that the same here? A bit weird having your union paid for by employer
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rugby-warned-it-faces-dementia-epidemic-without-immediate-change/
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@barbarian said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow was it North who had a couple several years back and appeared he went back on after being knocked out?
I was at that game, and still remember seeing him come back on and thinking 'surely not'. And then as the play unfolded he was clearly still affected. Has stayed with me to this day.
it was an astoundingly poor decision
i wonder what Tatafu Polota-Nau's brain looks like?
@mariner4life said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@barbarian said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@MiketheSnow was it North who had a couple several years back and appeared he went back on after being knocked out?
I was at that game, and still remember seeing him come back on and thinking 'surely not'. And then as the play unfolded he was clearly still affected. Has stayed with me to this day.
it was an astoundingly poor decision
There was so much hype about his return to the Wallabies in that game, and I just wonder if that combined with the game time (was it in the first five minutes?) contributed to a general desire to get him back out there. Am sure he was keen to get out there. But of course someone needed to sit him down, though it would have disappointed everyone there.
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IIRC Cane was having his bouts of Concussion around same time as that North incident, and may have been around a similar time and Cane walked himself off after a knock, despite no one seeing the head knock.
At the time I think NZR appeared well ahead of other nations in thier protocols, I even started a thread about it as we seemed to be getting more players suffering concussion (had been a few retirements too) than others at the time, so posed the question were we managing it better or were or players doing something to skew things.
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@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other.
I saw something similar in a story about NFL players - they found it wasn't the big ones that were getting guys: the continual smashing together on the scrimmage line over time was where the "floor" for CTE developed.
To me it made the argument for removing helmets and shoulder pads from NFL - remove the false sense of security.
Similarly in boxing, waaaaay back in the days when it was bareknuckle, hitting the head was often counter-productive as you'd like break a small bone in your hand. Not that having your ribs and organs smashed up was any better I guess...
@NTA said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other.
I saw something similar in a story about NFL players - they found it wasn't the big ones that were getting guys: the continual smashing together on the scrimmage line over time was where the "floor" for CTE developed.
To me it made the argument for removing helmets and shoulder pads from NFL - remove the false sense of security.
Similarly in boxing, waaaaay back in the days when it was bareknuckle, hitting the head was often counter-productive as you'd like break a small bone in your hand. Not that having your ribs and organs smashed up was any better I guess...
Yeah, this is concerning part from a personal perspective.
Looking back at my playing days not long after I "retired", I reckoned I had been concussed twice, both some years apart. The latest one had me standing down from playing for a few weeks and cooked me mentally for a few months - a general sense of fogginess and greater irritability. Anyway, I finished up playing at the end of the following season, but made a small come back for a social 10s tournament overseas about 3 years later. On the plane on the way over, I watched Concussion with Will Smith, where they really emphasise the significance of the "micro" injuries from standard play. Anyway, sure enough, first tackle I make in the 10s tournament, I had this feeling of my brain swishing around in my skull, but without that black our feeling that comes with a "proper" concussion. Really made me look back at my playing "career" and realise that my total concussion number was closer to a dozen than the one or two I had thought previously.
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What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other. You see all the articles which compare a full on high speed tackle to a car crash at XYZ kph, that is the real problem rugby has. In fact every contact sport.
@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other. You see all the articles which compare a full on high speed tackle to a car crash at XYZ kph, that is the real problem rugby has. In fact every contact sport.
Aren't some of these guys just playing too much? Some of these players in the suit have played over 300 first class games. Their careers have been lengthened because they stick around for the money. In the amateur days, they would have just retired. Players are making a trade off with their health.
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@NTA said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@Machpants said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
What I think has been missed here is the suit is as much about the continual micro injuries from pretty much every hit/ruck/tackle etc. So the big bash concussion management is maybe not as important as the continual damage that pro players do to each other.
I saw something similar in a story about NFL players - they found it wasn't the big ones that were getting guys: the continual smashing together on the scrimmage line over time was where the "floor" for CTE developed.
To me it made the argument for removing helmets and shoulder pads from NFL - remove the false sense of security.
Similarly in boxing, waaaaay back in the days when it was bareknuckle, hitting the head was often counter-productive as you'd like break a small bone in your hand. Not that having your ribs and organs smashed up was any better I guess...
Yeah, this is concerning part from a personal perspective.
Looking back at my playing days not long after I "retired", I reckoned I had been concussed twice, both some years apart. The latest one had me standing down from playing for a few weeks and cooked me mentally for a few months - a general sense of fogginess and greater irritability. Anyway, I finished up playing at the end of the following season, but made a small come back for a social 10s tournament overseas about 3 years later. On the plane on the way over, I watched Concussion with Will Smith, where they really emphasise the significance of the "micro" injuries from standard play. Anyway, sure enough, first tackle I make in the 10s tournament, I had this feeling of my brain swishing around in my skull, but without that black our feeling that comes with a "proper" concussion. Really made me look back at my playing "career" and realise that my total concussion number was closer to a dozen than the one or two I had thought previously.
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@MiketheSnow My favourite England player of that era. Brilliant to watch and completely dedicated.
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I wonder how fool proof the current checks are?
I recall reading an article a few years back where Stephen Kara (Blues Dr at the time) walked through the HIA protocols, on the day and the days following an impact, can only assume (hope) they are improving these all the time?
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This is getting big….undeniable. Is it just part of life? A game we love but big part of decline in players.
@kev yeah next ten years or so will be very interesting.
I mean, no contact before 14, yet, I am firmly in the camp that the younger (and smaller) they are to teach them to tackle properly, will minimise serious tackle (not head) injuries, but minimising doesnt eliminate.
Obviously this being about head injuries, if people cant tackle properly, it will see more head injuries...
I mean some 50kg U14 kid going out in his first game of tackle needing to take down a 100kg kid running flat out at him having never tackled before?
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@kev yeah next ten years or so will be very interesting.
I mean, no contact before 14, yet, I am firmly in the camp that the younger (and smaller) they are to teach them to tackle properly, will minimise serious tackle (not head) injuries, but minimising doesnt eliminate.
Obviously this being about head injuries, if people cant tackle properly, it will see more head injuries...
I mean some 50kg U14 kid going out in his first game of tackle needing to take down a 100kg kid running flat out at him having never tackled before?
@taniwharugby said in Rugby Brain Injuries:
@kev yeah next ten years or so will be very interesting.
I mean, no contact before 14, yet, I am firmly in the camp that the younger they are to teach them to tackle properly, will minimise serious tackle (not head) injuries, but minimising doesnt eliminate.
Obviously this being about head injuries, if people cant tackle properly, it will see more head injuries...
I mean some 50kg U14 kid going out in his first game of tackle needing to take down a 100kg kid running flat out at him having never tackled before?
Big fan of touch rugby, weight restricted rugby, technique coaching and the current crackdown. Players have to get lower, get their heads to the side. Tackling player must keep their head away from player being tackled. Those front on tackles where two defenders converge and take each other out with friendly fire is difficult….
