European Club Rugby
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If the figure is provided, I've highlighted the central income the clubs would have to reduce their take by half for this deal.
Can view the total owner debts and loans etc per club - and then compare this against the £17m payment to owners if deal went ahead.
Look at turnover per club and profit/loss - and work out who can and can't afford to halve their approx £5m per year in central funding. E.g. Sale and Newcastle would be losing 25% of their revenue.
Bath:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Loan by owner £17.8m
Loss before tax £2.6m
Turnover £19m
Ownership: controlling owner is the sole shareholder, Bruce Craig.Bristol:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Loan by owner £21m
Ownership: Owned by billionaire Stephen Lansdown and his wife, Catherine, via their company, Pula Sport Limited.Exeter:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Debentures £8m; bank loan £5m (total = £13m)
Turnover £17m
Profit before tax £1.1m
Ownership: Club states that it remains owned by 700 members, the shares held by John Lockyer, Bob Staddon, Paul Derbyshire and Ian Pugsley acting as trustees.Gloucester:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Bank loan £4.5m
Loss before tax £1.2m
Ownership: Ultimately owned by Martin St Quinton, who made his fortune from selling his company Azzurri Communications.Turnover £16m
• Central income £5m
• Tickets £4m
• Hospitality, conferencing, events £2.6m
• Sponsorship and advertising £2.3m
• Bar sales and commission on catering bar and shop £1.1m
• Other income £1mHarlequins:
Owner borrowings/investment: Owed to owner £37m
Loss before tax £6.6m
Ownership: Ultimately owned by Union Mutual Pension Fund Ltd, registered in the tax haven of Bermuda. Reported to be owned by financiers Charles Jillings and Duncan Saville.Turnover £20.7m
• Rugby income £6.5m
• Central funding £6.1m
• Commercial income £8mLeicester:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Loan by owner £9.5m
Loss before tax £0.9m
Ownership: Most recent annual return notes a large number of individual shareholders; club states that no person owns 50% or more of the club shares.Turnover £19.7m
• Rugby income £5.5m
• Premier Rugby Limited income £5.4m
• Commercial income £8.8mNewcastle:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Loans owing £20m
Loss before tax £3mTurnover £9.7m
• Income from Premier Rugby, RFU and RFL £5.2m
• Match income £1.7m
• Commercial £2.7m
Ownership: Owned by Semore Kurdi.Northampton:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Loans £4.8m
Loss before tax £1.2m
Ownership: No overall controlling party. (are a PLC)Turnover £16.7m
• Rugby income £4.1m
• Premier Rugby and RFU income £5m
• Commercial income £7.6mSale:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Owed to owner £1.9m
Loss before tax £0.81m
Ownership: Owned by Simon Orange via a holding company, CorpAcq Ltd.Turnover £8.3m
• Premier Rugby Limited and RFU income £5.3m
• Rugby income £2.9m
• Shop income £188,429Saracens:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Owed to parent co. and shareholders £47m
Turnover £17.8m
Loss before tax £2.8m
Ownership: Parent company Premier Team Holdings majority owned by Nigel Wray.Wasps:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Inc £12.9m to owner £48.9m
Loss before tax £3.7m
Ownership Owned by Derek Richardson via Moonstone Holdings, a company registered in Malta.Turnover £33.4m
• Wasps sport income £16.2m
• Business income £10.6m
• Entertainment income £1.2m
• Hotel income £2m
• Sponsorship and venue income £3.4m -
So, lets take Gloucester as an example. Reasonably well run MOTR club who own their own ground. Central funding represents 31% of their turnover.
Gloucester:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Bank loan £4.5m
Loss before tax £1.2m
Turnover £16m
• Central income £5m
• Tickets £4m
• Hospitality, conferencing, events £2.6m
• Sponsorship and advertising £2.3m
• Bar sales and commission on catering bar and shop £1.1m
• Other income £1mDon't have much debt - £4.5m
Get a payment of £17mSo, now have cash reserves of £12.5m
But are losing £1.2m a year
In the next 5 years.
- RFU central payments unchanged
- Naming rights sponsorship unchanged
- TV rights unchanged for 3 years - then re-issue
Gloucester would have reduced annual income of £2.5m. Also assume still overspending by £1.2m a year? So now losing £3.7m per year.
So in 3 years time when TV rights are up. Gloucester have wiped their debts, but lost £11.1m in the mean time.
So are now £1.4m in the black after 3 years (out of that £17m)
How much more does the next TV Rights need to be to make this worthwhile for Gloucester? And then the next Sponsorship and central funding deal. To stop that £3.7m annual bleeding.
Doesn't seem like a good deal to me to sell in perpetuity an annual income of £2.5m at current levels - for 6.8 years worth of that income upfront.
I'd buy a rental property at that gross yield.
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Apply the same scrutiny to Newcastle. Where current central funding makes up 50% of their turnover.
Newcastle:
Borrowings/investment by owner: Loans owing £20m
Loss before tax £3m
Turnover £9.7m
• Income from Premier Rugby, RFU and RFL £5.2m
• Match income £1.7m
• Commercial £2.7m£17m payment means £20m debt can be reduced to £3m.
Making a loss of £3m a year. After reducing their central income by £2.6m - this means they are losing £5.6m per year.
In 3 years time: Debt will be the remaining £3m plus and extra £16.8m = £19.8m.
So in 3 years time, Newcastle are back to square one.
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What hasn’t been mentioned is European Cup Rugby income managed by EPCR in Switzerland. Currently PRL get 33.3% of that income from TV and Sponsorships. They and France reduced the amount the 4 unions in PRO12 received in the last row in 2011/12.
PRO14 comp is owned by IRFU, WRU and SRU. They’ve doubled their TV income with new deal this year. They also brought in SARU. SARU want to become a shareholder next year and they’ll be adding 2 more teams. SARU also want entry to EPCR. By 2020/21 season, it will be PRO16. This gives them a stronger hand in negotiating new EPCR TV rights but should also increase value of those rights for all three comps - PRO16, Top14 and Premiership 12.
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Geez, that's bad luck. Shields made his debut for Wasps last night and then this happened.
@stargazer said in NH club rugby:
Geez, that's bad luck. Shields made his debut for Wasps last night and then this happened.
Soft southern hemisphere woofters.
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I've only picked the bit that is relevant to the SH here, but obviously there are more interesting points.
Another suggestion is for a Ryder Cup-style weekend showdown in mid-June between the best club or provincial teams in Europe and their southern hemisphere counterparts. Imagine the five leading New Zealand Super Rugby provinces coming over to play the top five clubs in England. On the same weekend the three top Australian sides might play in Ireland while the five best South African sides are split between Wales and Scotland. The 13 fixtures would be spread from Friday to Sunday, all of them counting for one point apiece. The first hemisphere to register seven wins would officially be declared the stronger. Would it capture the public imagination? With international tours now pushed further back in the calendar, the clubs can clearly scent a possible gap in the market. The problem, of course, is that the same players cannot play every week or they will be dropping like muscle-bound flies. The clubs reckon they have an answer to that as well: the squads of the future (some are already doing so) will contain over 60 players to enable them to field competitive teams in the newly recast and expanded Premiership Shield (formerly the A League).Problem is, of course, that under the new global calendar from 2020, June may be a free month in the NH, but in the SH Super Rugby continues in June (no June break anymore) and will be followed by a July international window for international test series in the SH.
Maybe Premiership teams can afford to sign squads of 60 players, but SR franchises can't. But even if it was financially viable, SR franchises wouldn't field their best squads in this inter-hemisphere competition. The best players would play in Super Rugby and - on top of that - would have to be carefully managed (as they are now) with a view to the upcoming international test season. If this inter-hemisphere competition would be a competition between B-teams (at least from the SH), would this really attract crowds? And why would SH franchises agree to playing all the games in the NH? Players would be away from home for weeks and the games wouldn't attract viewers in the SH because of the time difference. If this is about establishing which hemisphere is the strongest, then this competition (in this format) wouldn't achieve that.
Imagine the five leading New Zealand Super Rugby provinces ...Do they even know there are only 5 NZ SR franchises?
the five best South African sidesDuh, there are only four in SR.
I don't know hom much of the ideas in the article really come from the clubs or from the author's imagination, but they should do their homework before discussing it.
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I've only picked the bit that is relevant to the SH here, but obviously there are more interesting points.
Another suggestion is for a Ryder Cup-style weekend showdown in mid-June between the best club or provincial teams in Europe and their southern hemisphere counterparts. Imagine the five leading New Zealand Super Rugby provinces coming over to play the top five clubs in England. On the same weekend the three top Australian sides might play in Ireland while the five best South African sides are split between Wales and Scotland. The 13 fixtures would be spread from Friday to Sunday, all of them counting for one point apiece. The first hemisphere to register seven wins would officially be declared the stronger. Would it capture the public imagination? With international tours now pushed further back in the calendar, the clubs can clearly scent a possible gap in the market. The problem, of course, is that the same players cannot play every week or they will be dropping like muscle-bound flies. The clubs reckon they have an answer to that as well: the squads of the future (some are already doing so) will contain over 60 players to enable them to field competitive teams in the newly recast and expanded Premiership Shield (formerly the A League).Problem is, of course, that under the new global calendar from 2020, June may be a free month in the NH, but in the SH Super Rugby continues in June (no June break anymore) and will be followed by a July international window for international test series in the SH.
Maybe Premiership teams can afford to sign squads of 60 players, but SR franchises can't. But even if it was financially viable, SR franchises wouldn't field their best squads in this inter-hemisphere competition. The best players would play in Super Rugby and - on top of that - would have to be carefully managed (as they are now) with a view to the upcoming international test season. If this inter-hemisphere competition would be a competition between B-teams (at least from the SH), would this really attract crowds? And why would SH franchises agree to playing all the games in the NH? Players would be away from home for weeks and the games wouldn't attract viewers in the SH because of the time difference. If this is about establishing which hemisphere is the strongest, then this competition (in this format) wouldn't achieve that.
Imagine the five leading New Zealand Super Rugby provinces ...Do they even know there are only 5 NZ SR franchises?
the five best South African sidesDuh, there are only four in SR.
I don't know hom much of the ideas in the article really come from the clubs or from the author's imagination, but they should do their homework before discussing it.
@stargazer It's from the guardian. I'm surprised they have a sports section.
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No thanks.
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Proper red card that one
@billy-tell said in NH club rugby:
Proper red card that one
Bastareaud was initially handed a six-week suspension for the incident which was increased by one-week due to his disciplinary record, but because of the extenuating circumstances (recognition of guilt, conduct before and during the hearing, and expression of remorse), the penalty was reduced by 2 weeks. The ban means the 29-year-old will miss Toulon's next five fixtures and will be available for France's November tests against South Africa, Argentina, and Fiji. Bastareaud's chequered disciplinary record includes a suspension for using homophobic slurs against Benetton's Sebastian Negri in a Champions Cup game at the start of the year. -
So let me get this correct; he has a poor disciplinary record so he ends up with a week less than the original suspension?
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wow, look, it's 7 weeks until France's first test
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So let me get this correct; he has a poor disciplinary record so he ends up with a week less than the original suspension?
@antipodean But he said sorry!
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So let me get this correct; he has a poor disciplinary record so he ends up with a week less than the original suspension?
@antipodean Without his bad disciplinary record, he would probably have his suspension reduced by 50% to 3 weeks, as they do in all cases where they can tick off the whole list of mitigating factors. In his case, there was an aggravating factor (his bad record), so he got a week more, before taking a few mitigating factors into account (the reduction of 2 weeks). So in fact, he got 2 weeks more than he would have got without his bad disciplinary record.
This decision is also consistent with similar decisions, for example, the suspension handed out to Chance Peni after his high tackle on Israel Dagg in the Brumbies v Crusaders game.
I have no problem with this procedure, as it enhances consistency. I do, however, question the mid-range entry point of 6 weeks. What do players have to do before they apply the high-end entry point of 10 weeks?
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I have the rugby channel free for 3 months (I also think the normal sky channels are showing the European clubs comps now rather than them all being ghetoised on the rugby channel).
Anyway, the last few weeks this is the first time I have watched French club rugby (I just mysky the highlights show).
I found myself fast forwarding through this half hour highlights show last time as it's just really dull rugby. Pick and go tries, maul tries.
Also the teams all have bland kits that I can't remember who's playing who, boring Cell-C Sharks/Western Force look-a-likes.Conversely. I find the English Premiership show really good, and the tries & action last week were great, and the show was slick. And I can tell a Northampton/Leicester/Quins or Gloucester etc instantly just by their kits.
Zach Mercer looked excellent in the little highlights I saw last round. I remember seeing him in the JWC a few years ago and thinking he looked the wrong size and shape for an English No8. But he's bulked up a bit and was a beast and also skillful (he scored a great stepping try)
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The whole point of having low, mid and high entry points negates mitigating issues. The idea you "show remorse" and get a reduction is a joke.
@antipodean said in NH club rugby:
The whole point of having low, mid and high entry points negates mitigating issues. The idea you "show remorse" and get a reduction is a joke.
the only way that could be shown to be applicable is if we had players coming out and saying "nah, i think that guy is a fuckwit, so i whacked him. Fuck that guy".
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I see the Cheetahs held Ulster to a 39 all draw overnight. That's a remarkable improvement by the Cheetahs who now take their record to played 4, lost 3 drawn 1. Points for = 77 points against = 175. It still leaves them in last place mind you. What is surprising is that Ulster were leading their Pro 14 Division and had to rely on an injury time Henry Speight try (which was converted) to avoid the ultimate indignity!
Needless to day but the Kings have a very similar record going into the fourth round with three straight losses.
Looks like nothing much has changed for both teams.
