Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
His action is probably what screwed his elbow.
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@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
His action is probably what screwed his elbow.
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
His action is probably what screwed his elbow.
Yeah - I don't think we'll see Kane bowling in final, unless it's right at the death and in desperation - and not much ever again.
But, imagine if Matt Henry could bowl spin as well as Little Kane. He'd be right in the mix. de Grandhomme would be locked in.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Collin Miller is the last one I can think of. Not Sober's league of course, but he did far too well against us...
@donsteppa said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Collin Miller is the last one I can think of. Not Sober's league of course, but he did far too well against us...
I know funk pretty well. A good bloke with time for everyone, well obviously
.We all saw him play but he was actually awarded Australian test player of the year in 2001 when they were easily the best in the world so he did pretty well against most
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There was a Pakistani quick whose name I forget but went the other way - an offie who started bowling seam. He bowled a few overs of spin in a test though. Probably about 10-15 years ago.
Ravindra could be another contender for all-rounder. Especially if he wants to break in to the side now that Young and Conway look to have locked up the top order spots even after Taylor retires, he could try and make it as a number 6 who gives us a spin option.
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you know what is going to fuck me off?
Despite all our "recent" success (it's actually like 6-7 years of sustained high performance) there is still no respect on our name.
We get shit tour schedules, 2 test series, and shoved to the outsides of domestic summers by asshole teams we are actually better than, but are clinging to history, or the fact there are a billion of them, and they have nothing else in their lives.
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Despite all our "recent" success (it's actually like 6-7 years of sustained high performance) there is still no respect on our name.
We get shit tour schedules, 2 test series, and shoved to the outsides of domestic summers by asshole teams we are actually better than, but are clinging to history, or the fact there are a billion of them, and they have nothing else in their lives.
We got the tour of Australia which isn't nothing. This tour has planned on the fly, they are due to schedule England again next year for a three test series.
Getting good tests during the holiday season is hard because SA/Aus clash, England can't because of their CBA and good luck getting India to do anything... so its' a steady diet of Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and the Windies.
If we had performed in Australia and won then I think we would have a lot more respect in India/England.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
His action is probably what screwed his elbow.
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
His action is probably what screwed his elbow.
Left arm bandaged during the last test
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There was a Pakistani quick whose name I forget but went the other way - an offie who started bowling seam. He bowled a few overs of spin in a test though. Probably about 10-15 years ago.
Ravindra could be another contender for all-rounder. Especially if he wants to break in to the side now that Young and Conway look to have locked up the top order spots even after Taylor retires, he could try and make it as a number 6 who gives us a spin option.
@cyclops said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
There was a Pakistani quick whose name I forget but went the other way - an offie who started bowling seam. He bowled a few overs of spin in a test though. Probably about 10-15 years ago.
Sohail Tanvir?
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If we had performed in Australia and won then I think we would have a lot more respect in India/England.
I'd argue that India have been good to us in the last decade. They tour NZ a fair bit and don't shirk on the number of games compared to Australia who come for a week maybe. The revenue from those Indian tours have had a direct influence on our current success, in my opinion.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
I think Chris Harris just sat on the fence between the two. Was he slow-slow-medium or quick spin?
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Didn't Chris Harris pretty much switch from bowling seam to leggies? but never gained much recognition largely because his pace bowling was the same speed?
@reprobate said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Didn't Chris Harris pretty much switch from bowling seam to leggies? but never gained much recognition largely because his pace bowling was the same speed?
Snap
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you know what is going to fuck me off?
Despite all our "recent" success (it's actually like 6-7 years of sustained high performance) there is still no respect on our name.
We get shit tour schedules, 2 test series, and shoved to the outsides of domestic summers by asshole teams we are actually better than, but are clinging to history, or the fact there are a billion of them, and they have nothing else in their lives.
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.The lack of recognition for sure.
Not so sure about the future and I really hope that you are wrong re results. The next generation of players will be watching this. They know that there is money in cricket and they know that NZ can be successful. I'm more optimistic that we could have some sustained excellence. We aren't always going to have a KW, but we have done it with rugby and didn't always have a McCaw or Carter, so why not?
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.The lack of recognition for sure.
Not so sure about the future and I really hope that you are wrong re results. The next generation of players will be watching this. They know that there is money in cricket and they know that NZ can be successful. I'm more optimistic that we could have some sustained excellence. We aren't always going to have a KW, but we have done it with rugby and didn't always have a McCaw or Carter, so why not?
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Jason Floros (Queensland Bulls) was a pace bowler all through his age grade years in ACT but made the Queensland team as an off spinning allrounder.
In think that in these cases it is just that the pace aspect isn't top level but as an allround skilled cricketer they can add a few overs of spin to their bag of skills.
I guess that the original question was whether anyone is good at both and can fill a dual role in a team.
I imagine that Jamieson could develop a nasty top spinner. -
Mark Waugh realised he was never gonna be as good at batting as Steve and switched from Medium to spin if I remember rightly.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Mark Waugh realised he was never gonna be as good at batting as Steve and switched from Medium to spin if I remember rightly.
In that case I hope Steve Waugh tries his hand at commentary very soon.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
I think Chris Harris just sat on the fence between the two. Was he slow-slow-medium or quick spin?
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
I think Chris Harris just sat on the fence between the two. Was he slow-slow-medium or quick spin?
He alternated between dibbly and dobbly as was the style in the mid 90s.
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@snowy The Black Caps opposition more often than not did have one or two like them though.
@higgins said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy The Black Caps opposition more often than not did have one or two like them though.
Was getting at the point that we can have future success now that we have the pathways, the money (IPL, etc) and the inspiration for young players. Christ it was depressing being a cricket fan in NZ for years, let alone aspiring to be a player. Hopefully that has or will change now.
