Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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No love for CDG it seems. The comms keep saying that bowlers like him have been doing very well in England. He also serves as a pinch hitter if we want quick runs.
Ave 36 with the bat. 32 with the ball at 2.4 eco. 25 tests experience not to be sneezed at.
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No love for CDG it seems. The comms keep saying that bowlers like him have been doing very well in England. He also serves as a pinch hitter if we want quick runs.
Ave 36 with the bat. 32 with the ball at 2.4 eco. 25 tests experience not to be sneezed at.
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
No love for CDG it seems. The comms keep saying that bowlers like him have been doing very well in England. He also serves as a pinch hitter if we want quick runs.
Ave 36 with the bat. 32 with the ball at 2.4 eco. 25 tests experience not to be sneezed at.
Is he short of a gallop? He is in the mix for me, along with D Mitch Ajaz and Blundell for me(if we choose to take an extra batsman)
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I want them to bolster the batting with Daryl Mitchell and punt that swing will be vastly more important than spin. That also enhances our close catching of edges from the swinging ball and a Wagner bounce barrage.
@arhs said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I want them to bolster the batting with Daryl Mitchell and punt that swing will be vastly more important than spin. That also enhances our close catching of edges from the swinging ball and a Wagner bounce barrage.
Yeah - I'm leaning that way as well. Him or Colin.
Someone who can bowl a few handy overs and block up an end.
I think it's all very well talking about Big Kyle batting at 7 - but, if the Indians knock over our top order cheaply, we'll be pretty happy to have a genuine batsman at 7.
For reference, when we played them last year - CdG batted at 7 in both games. Ajaz played the first game (Wags didn't) and barely got a bowl. Wags came in for the 2nd game - got a couple of wickets and some handy runs. I wouldn't mind that team again - with Conway in for Blundell.
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If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
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I have been searching for some kind of meaningful stat on how India handle playing with a Duke ball. Upshot is that there is little obvious change.
Given that the only real comparison is how they generally perform away against the Kookaburra I can't see much.Their average win rate against SA, Aus and NZ with the K ball is a little higher than against Eng and WI with the Duke.
The biggest differences in comparison are vs Eng (D) and Oz (K) - 14.5% v 17.3 and vs WI (D) and NZ (K) 17.6% and 20%.
So maybe a touch of an indication that historically the Duke is their least effective ball and maybe that the worst combo of all is the Duke in English conditions.
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If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
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I have been searching for some kind of meaningful stat on how India handle playing with a Duke ball. Upshot is that there is little obvious change.
Given that the only real comparison is how they generally perform away against the Kookaburra I can't see much.Their average win rate against SA, Aus and NZ with the K ball is a little higher than against Eng and WI with the Duke.
The biggest differences in comparison are vs Eng (D) and Oz (K) - 14.5% v 17.3 and vs WI (D) and NZ (K) 17.6% and 20%.
So maybe a touch of an indication that historically the Duke is their least effective ball and maybe that the worst combo of all is the Duke in English conditions.
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I have been searching for some kind of meaningful stat on how India handle playing with a Duke ball. Upshot is that there is little obvious change.
Given that the only real comparison is how they generally perform away against the Kookaburra I can't see much.Their average win rate against SA, Aus and NZ with the K ball is a little higher than against Eng and WI with the Duke.
The biggest differences in comparison are vs Eng (D) and Oz (K) - 14.5% v 17.3 and vs WI (D) and NZ (K) 17.6% and 20%.
So maybe a touch of an indication that historically the Duke is their least effective ball and maybe that the worst combo of all is the Duke in English conditions.
I had a quick look on cricinfo going through their current players stats in England. Doesnt make great reading.
10 tests in England Kohli only averages 36.Sub continent teams have historically struggled in seam/swing friendly countries like England and NZ. Though this current and recent Indian side differs alot from past teams.
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I have been searching for some kind of meaningful stat on how India handle playing with a Duke ball. Upshot is that there is little obvious change.
Given that the only real comparison is how they generally perform away against the Kookaburra I can't see much.Their average win rate against SA, Aus and NZ with the K ball is a little higher than against Eng and WI with the Duke.
The biggest differences in comparison are vs Eng (D) and Oz (K) - 14.5% v 17.3 and vs WI (D) and NZ (K) 17.6% and 20%.
So maybe a touch of an indication that historically the Duke is their least effective ball and maybe that the worst combo of all is the Duke in English conditions.
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i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
Possibly better than CDGH, not definitely.
Young isn’t in this discussion as he’s very much a specialist batsman who will be counting the days til Rossco calls time.
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i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
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@arhs said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I want them to bolster the batting with Daryl Mitchell and punt that swing will be vastly more important than spin. That also enhances our close catching of edges from the swinging ball and a Wagner bounce barrage.
Yeah - I'm leaning that way as well. Him or Colin.
Someone who can bowl a few handy overs and block up an end.
I think it's all very well talking about Big Kyle batting at 7 - but, if the Indians knock over our top order cheaply, we'll be pretty happy to have a genuine batsman at 7.
For reference, when we played them last year - CdG batted at 7 in both games. Ajaz played the first game (Wags didn't) and barely got a bowl. Wags came in for the 2nd game - got a couple of wickets and some handy runs. I wouldn't mind that team again - with Conway in for Blundell.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
Possibly better than CDGH, not definitely.
Young isn’t in this discussion as he’s very much a specialist batsman who will be counting the days til Rossco calls time.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
Possibly better than CDGH, not definitely.
Young isn’t in this discussion as he’s very much a specialist batsman who will be counting the days til Rossco calls time.
I'm going with at least "probably" better. By pretty much every metric including first class and one day cricket, he's superior.
Other people have picked Young in their XI, but I agree - I can't see them picking him - thinking about it, I'd actually pick Blundell ahead of Young.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
they kinda do though
He's barely played away from home. He has a good number of games against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and the Windies. 1 century and 8 50s from 38 innings, countered by 5 ducks.
His best serious series is in Australia where he averaged 30 by hitting 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 9.
With the ball he gets a wicket an innings, at a respectable rate of a little under 2.5
As you say, you look at the numbers and he's looking alright. BUT, his batting technique is a bit shit for long form cricket, so his best option is really to hit out and get those 30-odd as quick as he can (he averages about 38 balls an innings) And for a wicket to wicket slow medium bowler to tie up an end i wouldn't mind a few more runs than that at 7.
It's also telling his first class stats are so similar to his test stats.
I will absolutely concede that Daryl Mitchell's numbers don't exactly create a telling counter-argument. And i can't remember for the life of me what his technique is like.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
If they look at the pitch and decide they need a spinner - who would be comfortable with Ajaz replacing Wags? In a way - that's the logical change - rather than leaving out a batsman/allrounder.
For me - 8. Kyle. 9. Wags. 10. Southee. 11. Boult is a strong tail and a point of advantage over India.
Bump them all one higher and stick Ajaz in - suddenly that's a long tail and a bit frail.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
they kinda do though
He's barely played away from home. He has a good number of games against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and the Windies. 1 century and 8 50s from 38 innings, countered by 5 ducks.
His best serious series is in Australia where he averaged 30 by hitting 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 9.
With the ball he gets a wicket an innings, at a respectable rate of a little under 2.5
As you say, you look at the numbers and he's looking alright. BUT, his batting technique is a bit shit for long form cricket, so his best option is really to hit out and get those 30-odd as quick as he can (he averages about 38 balls an innings) And for a wicket to wicket slow medium bowler to tie up an end i wouldn't mind a few more runs than that at 7.
It's also telling his first class stats are so similar to his test stats.
I will absolutely concede that Daryl Mitchell's numbers don't exactly create a telling counter-argument. And i can't remember for the life of me what his technique is like.
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
they kinda do though
He's barely played away from home. He has a good number of games against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and the Windies. 1 century and 8 50s from 38 innings, countered by 5 ducks.
His best serious series is in Australia where he averaged 30 by hitting 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 9.
With the ball he gets a wicket an innings, at a respectable rate of a little under 2.5
As you say, you look at the numbers and he's looking alright. BUT, his batting technique is a bit shit for long form cricket, so his best option is really to hit out and get those 30-odd as quick as he can (he averages about 38 balls an innings) And for a wicket to wicket slow medium bowler to tie up an end i wouldn't mind a few more runs than that at 7.
It's also telling his first class stats are so similar to his test stats.
I will absolutely concede that Daryl Mitchell's numbers don't exactly create a telling counter-argument. And i can't remember for the life of me what his technique is like.
He’s definitely a guy who will come in and make a good score even better and at a quick rate of knots. The flipside there is that he’s certainly not a guy you’d want to knuckle down and bat for your life.
With 10 of this 11 locked in ( I think we can all agree with that ) the 11th guy will come in with big question marks one way or another. We have to live with that.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
If they look at the pitch and decide they need a spinner - who would be comfortable with Ajaz replacing Wags? In a way - that's the logical change - rather than leaving out a batsman/allrounder.
For me - 8. Kyle. 9. Wags. 10. Southee. 11. Boult is a strong tail and a point of advantage over India.
Bump them all one higher and stick Ajaz in - suddenly that's a long tail and a bit frail.
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
If they look at the pitch and decide they need a spinner - who would be comfortable with Ajaz replacing Wags? In a way - that's the logical change - rather than leaving out a batsman/allrounder.
For me - 8. Kyle. 9. Wags. 10. Southee. 11. Boult is a strong tail and a point of advantage over India.
Bump them all one higher and stick Ajaz in - suddenly that's a long tail and a bit frail.
Someone ban this guy.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
If they look at the pitch and decide they need a spinner - who would be comfortable with Ajaz replacing Wags? In a way - that's the logical change - rather than leaving out a batsman/allrounder.
For me - 8. Kyle. 9. Wags. 10. Southee. 11. Boult is a strong tail and a point of advantage over India.
Bump them all one higher and stick Ajaz in - suddenly that's a long tail and a bit frail.
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
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@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Yeah - that's what I reckon, as well.
If spin is going to be important, let's cut our losses and play for a draw - include an extra batsman.
But, if we're really sold on balance and including a spinner, you can't go past...
Latham, Conway, Williamson, Taylor, Nicholls, Watling, de Grandhomme, Jamieson, Southee, Patel, Boult.
But, the reports from the groundsman sounds like he's aiming to provide pace and bounce - and not too much sideways movement. It's England - the pitch isn't going to get baked over five days.
