Super Rugby Trans Tasman
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@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
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The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
and to play 75% of games at home.
So try distort the results? Should we give them a points start as well?
I'm not having a crack at you, just that it still has to be as fair a comp as possible. We haven't had that for years anyway, with guaranteed home finals and conferences but I wouldn't like to see us regress to that sort of thing. The Aussies will get better by playing better teams all of the time, both home and away.
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@dan54 Not sure that's the answer. The benefit of the domestic Aus comp is they get a guaranteed Aus winner - look at the success of the Au final.
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@dan54 Not sure that's the answer. The benefit of the domestic Aus comp is they get a guaranteed Aus winner - look at the success of the Au final.
I'd expand the Aussie SR comp to 10 teams, providing a pathway for players and more content for broadcasters.
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@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
and to play 75% of games at home.
So try distort the results? Should we give them a points start as well?
I'm not having a crack at you, just that it still has to be as fair a comp as possible. We haven't had that for years anyway, with guaranteed home finals and conferences but I wouldn't like to see us regress to that sort of thing. The Aussies will get better by playing better teams all of the time, both home and away.
@snowy said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
and to play 75% of games at home.
So try distort the results? Should we give them a points start as well?
I'm not having a crack at you, just that it still has to be as fair a comp as possible. We haven't had that for years anyway, with guaranteed home finals and conferences but I wouldn't like to see us regress to that sort of thing. The Aussies will get better by playing better teams all of the time, both home and away.
I was taking the piss. Of course there shouldn't be any concessions just because Australia can't turn out competitive sides. That would make the comp a sham on a greater scale even than the conference finals rep system we used to have.
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@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
@dan54 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
Or even if we play a full round robin we could get a scenario where an Australian side goes well in local derbies, can't beat NZ opposition, but makes the finals because the NZ teams beat each other up.
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@snowy said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
and to play 75% of games at home.
So try distort the results? Should we give them a points start as well?
I'm not having a crack at you, just that it still has to be as fair a comp as possible. We haven't had that for years anyway, with guaranteed home finals and conferences but I wouldn't like to see us regress to that sort of thing. The Aussies will get better by playing better teams all of the time, both home and away.
I was taking the piss. Of course there shouldn't be any concessions just because Australia can't turn out competitive sides. That would make the comp a sham on a greater scale even than the conference finals rep system we used to have.
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@snowy said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
and to play 75% of games at home.
So try distort the results? Should we give them a points start as well?
I'm not having a crack at you, just that it still has to be as fair a comp as possible. We haven't had that for years anyway, with guaranteed home finals and conferences but I wouldn't like to see us regress to that sort of thing. The Aussies will get better by playing better teams all of the time, both home and away.
I was taking the piss. Of course there shouldn't be any concessions just because Australia can't turn out competitive sides. That would make the comp a sham on a greater scale even than the conference finals rep system we used to have.
Yes it would, not sure that we are finding solutions to the "super" TT being a bit shit though. Home and away for the top couple of teams from each SRA might work, with a final at the end? Dunno haven't thought enough about it.
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@dan54 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
Or even if we play a full round robin we could get a scenario where an Australian side goes well in local derbies, can't beat NZ opposition, but makes the finals because the NZ teams beat each other up.
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@dan54 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
Or even if we play a full round robin we could get a scenario where an Australian side goes well in local derbies, can't beat NZ opposition, but makes the finals because the NZ teams beat each other up.
The situation we had in the semifinals with the conference system.
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Here are your referees for Round 3.
Hurricanes v Force
Friday 28 May, 7:05pm
McLean Park, Napier
Referee: James Doleman
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill
TMO: Mike FraserWaratahs v Crusaders
Saturday 29 May, 5:05pm
WIN Stadium, Wollongong
Referee: Graham Cooper
Assistant 1: Matt Kellehan
Assistant 2: James Quinn
TMO: James LeckieBlues v Brumbies
Saturday 29 May, 7:15pm (NOTE 7:15PM KICK OFF)
Eden Park, Auckland
Referee: Damon Murphy
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 2: Lauren Jenner
TMO: Glenn NewmanReds v Chiefs
Saturday 29 May, 9:45pm
Queensland Country Bank Stadium, Townsville
Referee: Nic Berry
Assistant 1: Reuben Keane
Assistant 2: Brett Cronan
TMO: Ian SmithHighlanders v Rebels
Sunday 30 May, 2.35pm (NOTE 2:35PM KICK OFF)
Sir John Davies Oval, Queenstown
Referee: Paul Williams
Assistant 1: Brendon Pickerill
Assistant 2: James Doleman
TMO: Mike Fraser -
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@dan54 Not sure that's the answer. The benefit of the domestic Aus comp is they get a guaranteed Aus winner - look at the success of the Au final.
I'd expand the Aussie SR comp to 10 teams, providing a pathway for players and more content for broadcasters.
@antipodean I'm pretty sure this is tongue in cheek but it's my preference.
The Aussie SR sides won't be competitive with their NZ counterparts. Even with major structural reform and a sudden influx of cash that meant we could actually retain our talent, it'd still take years (five to ten at least), before they are up to speed.
TT is a complete non-starter.
To be honest, it's kind of hard to see how RA gets itself out of this death spiral at all. Every single alternative option for players is more attractive. Salaries in Japan and Europe are only bettered by the salaries in AFL and NRL.
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Here are your referees for Round 3.
Hurricanes v Force
Friday 28 May, 7:05pm
McLean Park, Napier
Referee: James Doleman
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill
TMO: Mike FraserWaratahs v Crusaders
Saturday 29 May, 5:05pm
WIN Stadium, Wollongong
Referee: Graham Cooper
Assistant 1: Matt Kellehan
Assistant 2: James Quinn
TMO: James LeckieBlues v Brumbies
Saturday 29 May, 7:15pm (NOTE 7:15PM KICK OFF)
Eden Park, Auckland
Referee: Damon Murphy
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 2: Lauren Jenner
TMO: Glenn NewmanReds v Chiefs
Saturday 29 May, 9:45pm
Queensland Country Bank Stadium, Townsville
Referee: Nic Berry
Assistant 1: Reuben Keane
Assistant 2: Brett Cronan
TMO: Ian SmithHighlanders v Rebels
Sunday 30 May, 2.35pm (NOTE 2:35PM KICK OFF)
Sir John Davies Oval, Queenstown
Referee: Paul Williams
Assistant 1: Brendon Pickerill
Assistant 2: James Doleman
TMO: Mike Fraser -
Here are your referees for Round 3.
Hurricanes v Force
Friday 28 May, 7:05pm
McLean Park, Napier
Referee: James Doleman
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 2: Brendon Pickerill
TMO: Mike FraserWaratahs v Crusaders
Saturday 29 May, 5:05pm
WIN Stadium, Wollongong
Referee: Graham Cooper
Assistant 1: Matt Kellehan
Assistant 2: James Quinn
TMO: James LeckieBlues v Brumbies
Saturday 29 May, 7:15pm (NOTE 7:15PM KICK OFF)
Eden Park, Auckland
Referee: Damon Murphy
Assistant 1: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 2: Lauren Jenner
TMO: Glenn NewmanReds v Chiefs
Saturday 29 May, 9:45pm
Queensland Country Bank Stadium, Townsville
Referee: Nic Berry
Assistant 1: Reuben Keane
Assistant 2: Brett Cronan
TMO: Ian SmithHighlanders v Rebels
Sunday 30 May, 2.35pm (NOTE 2:35PM KICK OFF)
Sir John Davies Oval, Queenstown
Referee: Paul Williams
Assistant 1: Brendon Pickerill
Assistant 2: James Doleman
TMO: Mike Fraser -
@bovidae said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
Damon Murphy
Hope there isn't a big change in the way the scrums are reffed.
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@dan54 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
Or even if we play a full round robin we could get a scenario where an Australian side goes well in local derbies, can't beat NZ opposition, but makes the finals because the NZ teams beat each other up.
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@dan54 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The future is clear. The only way to make the draw fair for Australian teams is to regularly intersperse those 'ouchie' games against NZ opposition, with numerous points-building home derbies, and to play 75% of games at home.
Yep if we play same format next year we will get same results, they need to mix up the games.
Or even if we play a full round robin we could get a scenario where an Australian side goes well in local derbies, can't beat NZ opposition, but makes the finals because the NZ teams beat each other up.
you mean, Super15-18, 2011-2019...
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@antipodean I'm pretty sure this is tongue in cheek but it's my preference.
The Aussie SR sides won't be competitive with their NZ counterparts. Even with major structural reform and a sudden influx of cash that meant we could actually retain our talent, it'd still take years (five to ten at least), before they are up to speed.
TT is a complete non-starter.
To be honest, it's kind of hard to see how RA gets itself out of this death spiral at all. Every single alternative option for players is more attractive. Salaries in Japan and Europe are only bettered by the salaries in AFL and NRL.
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@derpus disagree totally. You keep more quality players in Aus by giving them a more meaningful local program. Playing kiwi sides does that. They will be better for it and depth will improve as the Jersey becomes more attractive.
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@arhs i mean up until last year there was an even MORE meaningful comp and aussie (and nz) was still losing players overseas
what was the record the Highlanders stuffed up a few years ago? 25 wins in a row to NZ teams over aussie ones
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
what was the record the Highlanders stuffed up a few years ago? 25 wins in a row to NZ teams over aussie ones
Hopeless your lot. We can try for better this year. Don't let us down.
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@derpus disagree totally. You keep more quality players in Aus by giving them a more meaningful local program. Playing kiwi sides does that. They will be better for it and depth will improve as the Jersey becomes more attractive.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
what was the record the Highlanders stuffed up a few years ago? 25 wins in a row to NZ teams over aussie ones
Hopeless your lot. We can try for better this year. Don't let us down.
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@hydro11 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@hydro11 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The Australian teams are much worse than us. The draw does favour our teams though. The Hurricanes for instance are getting to rest some players with three easy games before taking on the Reds and the Brumbies. The Reds and Brumbies stand a chance of winning games, especially at home against our weaker sides. I think it will get tougher for them as the competition goes on.
If you had a format where you play teams for your own country twice and all the Aussie teams once, it would at least appear more even. The New Zealand teams would be more tired from playing each other.
Realistically, the best format would be 5 NZ teams, 4 Aus teams and 1 Pacific or Japanese team. That would provide the most even and balanced competition possible.
The Crusaders played the top two Australian teams in the first two weeks, including their champions away. The Highlanders got their best side and then a trip to Perth. The Chiefs had to start in Perth a week after our final.
How has the draw favoured NZ teams???
I thought my post explained it clearly.
It's obvious. The Brumbies and Reds have 5 tough games in a row (after their final). The Hurricanes had a week off, play 2 easy teams, the Force and then the Brumbies/Reds. Every Australian team has a tough draw because they do not have to play the other Australian teams!
In a round-robin format, the Brumbies/Reds would get to intersperse games against New Zealand teams with easy games against Australian opposition. This would give them a greater chance of winning these games and would make them more competitive.
So it's a tough draw for the Australians, because they're not good, and have to play five superior teams in a row? That's not a tough draw so much as incompetence.
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@hydro11 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@shark said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@hydro11 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
The Australian teams are much worse than us. The draw does favour our teams though. The Hurricanes for instance are getting to rest some players with three easy games before taking on the Reds and the Brumbies. The Reds and Brumbies stand a chance of winning games, especially at home against our weaker sides. I think it will get tougher for them as the competition goes on.
If you had a format where you play teams for your own country twice and all the Aussie teams once, it would at least appear more even. The New Zealand teams would be more tired from playing each other.
Realistically, the best format would be 5 NZ teams, 4 Aus teams and 1 Pacific or Japanese team. That would provide the most even and balanced competition possible.
The Crusaders played the top two Australian teams in the first two weeks, including their champions away. The Highlanders got their best side and then a trip to Perth. The Chiefs had to start in Perth a week after our final.
How has the draw favoured NZ teams???
I thought my post explained it clearly.
It's obvious. The Brumbies and Reds have 5 tough games in a row (after their final). The Hurricanes had a week off, play 2 easy teams, the Force and then the Brumbies/Reds. Every Australian team has a tough draw because they do not have to play the other Australian teams!
In a round-robin format, the Brumbies/Reds would get to intersperse games against New Zealand teams with easy games against Australian opposition. This would give them a greater chance of winning these games and would make them more competitive.
So it's a tough draw for the Australians, because they're not good, and have to play five superior teams in a row? That's not a tough draw so much as incompetence.
Look, it is a tough situation. The problem is Super Rugby Aotearoa is not sustainable. New Zealand Rugby's solution to the problem is to create two Pacific Island teams. They are going to be even worse and drag the competition down.
The best scenario is some sort of compromise. We would be a lot better off having a trans Ta$man competition. This means we have to let in some uncompetitive Aussie teams and probably give them a home semi final.
