Super Rugby Trans Tasman
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@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kirwan its not, hence my preference for a domestic comp. P'raps its a pipedream.
I suspect we will get a domestic comp next year. As Reds boss Jeff "Ginge" Miller said this week, all oz franchises want it.
McClellan has good spidey senses and does read the tea leaves -- even if the sheepish Marinos does not.
Of course, that's not going to be to the exclusion of a combined ANZ comp - but what that is ain't exactly clear ...
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
While 5-0 won't really surprise anyone, was the quality (or lack of) that was of concern (from some of our teams too)
Hopefully round 2 will be better as teams adjust and settle in.
Sadly I dont see the officiating improving which has an impact on the games (but this is an ongoing issue)
It seems that the yellow card thing is now being over done. The worst is the player on the wrong side slowing down the ball. Most are not deliberate but treated as such. If you make a dominant tackle ( I thought that was the aim ) you will always be at risk here. Don’t think these non deliberate penalties should contribute to offences adding up to a yellow card.
@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
If you make a dominant tackle ( I thought that was the aim ) you will always be at risk here.
Sure but how dominant is your tackle if you're the one that is ending up in the wrong position and have no control over it? If you can't make a "dominant" tackle without ending up on the wrong side, then you should probably not try eh, or work on your technique.
We don't excuse a forward pass just because "he was trying a really really big pass".
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@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
If you make a dominant tackle ( I thought that was the aim ) you will always be at risk here.
Sure but how dominant is your tackle if you're the one that is ending up in the wrong position and have no control over it? If you can't make a "dominant" tackle without ending up on the wrong side, then you should probably not try eh, or work on your technique.
We don't excuse a forward pass just because "he was trying a really really big pass".
Different point I think. Sure for the penalty. But lots of times guys can’t move despite best efforts because the arriving players lock them in. Some who don’t try, just wrap and stay. Judgement as always. Just saying it’s only the cynical ones that should be considered for yellow cards.
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@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
If you make a dominant tackle ( I thought that was the aim ) you will always be at risk here.
Sure but how dominant is your tackle if you're the one that is ending up in the wrong position and have no control over it? If you can't make a "dominant" tackle without ending up on the wrong side, then you should probably not try eh, or work on your technique.
We don't excuse a forward pass just because "he was trying a really really big pass".
Different point I think. Sure for the penalty. But lots of times guys can’t move despite best efforts because the arriving players lock them in. Some who don’t try, just wrap and stay. Judgement as always. Just saying it’s only the cynical ones that should be considered for yellow cards.
@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
But lots of times guys can’t move despite best efforts because the arriving players lock them in.
And most of those lots of times, guys have put themselves on the wrong side and get locked in by arriving players. How can they avoid getting locked in? Don't get on the wrong side!
It happens very occasionally that players are genuinely in the way through no fault of their own and it's probably the one thing refs get right most often.
I was moaning about one last week though
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@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kirwan its not, hence my preference for a domestic comp. P'raps its a pipedream.
I suspect we will get a domestic comp next year. As Reds boss Jeff "Ginge" Miller said this week, all oz franchises want it.
McClellan has good spidey senses and does read the tea leaves -- even if the sheepish Marinos does not.
Of course, that's not going to be to the exclusion of a combined ANZ comp - but what that is ain't exactly clear ...
@kiap said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kirwan its not, hence my preference for a domestic comp. P'raps its a pipedream.
I suspect we will get a domestic comp next year. As Reds boss Jeff "Ginge" Miller said this week, all oz franchises want it.
McClellan has good spidey senses and does read the tea leaves -- even if the sheepish Marinos does not.
Of course, that's not going to be to the exclusion of a combined ANZ comp - but what that is ain't exactly clear ...
Mate as I keep saying a 5 team comp will only last for another year or so before it gets to same ol same ol, with not enough variety, reckon both Aus and NZ could have good seperate comps with 7-8 teams in each comp. I would love 2 x 8 team comps, then just a top4 and bottom 4 from each comp play off, but there not enough money to do it.
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@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
But lots of times guys can’t move despite best efforts because the arriving players lock them in.
And most of those lots of times, guys have put themselves on the wrong side and get locked in by arriving players. How can they avoid getting locked in? Don't get on the wrong side!
It happens very occasionally that players are genuinely in the way through no fault of their own and it's probably the one thing refs get right most often.
I was moaning about one last week though
@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
But lots of times guys can’t move despite best efforts because the arriving players lock them in.
And most of those lots of times, guys have put themselves on the wrong side and get locked in by arriving players. How can they avoid getting locked in? Don't get on the wrong side!
It happens very occasionally that players are genuinely in the way through no fault of their own and it's probably the one thing refs get right most often.
I was moaning about one last week though
What you want though is consistency.
I could find easily a dozen examples during the game of players on the wrong side that weren’t penalised because they didn’t affect play, yet this one does.
I think I mentioned it in the match thread that the danger with refs like this one is that when playing advantage (or after a warning) they change the standard by which they judge.
The guy’s method was play advantage for a technical penalty then focus on the offending side looking for any minor transgression and keep racking up the penalties until producing a YC.
Another example of a minor infringement that caused a chain was DMac defending the line with his fingers in the field of play. Correct technical penalty that started a mindset of looking for a reason to YC. -
@kiap said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kirwan its not, hence my preference for a domestic comp. P'raps its a pipedream.
I suspect we will get a domestic comp next year. As Reds boss Jeff "Ginge" Miller said this week, all oz franchises want it.
McClellan has good spidey senses and does read the tea leaves -- even if the sheepish Marinos does not.
Of course, that's not going to be to the exclusion of a combined ANZ comp - but what that is ain't exactly clear ...
Mate as I keep saying a 5 team comp will only last for another year or so before it gets to same ol same ol, with not enough variety, reckon both Aus and NZ could have good seperate comps with 7-8 teams in each comp. I would love 2 x 8 team comps, then just a top4 and bottom 4 from each comp play off, but there not enough money to do it.
@dan54 said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
Aus and NZ could have good seperate comps with 7-8 teams in each comp.
Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm just going to park your statement here because you've already parked it yourself ...
I would love 2 x 8 team comps, then just a top4 and bottom 4 from each comp play off, but there not enough money to do it.
You know when someone sets up their own argument in reply and then starts knocking it down? That's what is known as a straw man logical fallacy.
Mate as I keep saying a 5 team comp will only last for another year or so before it gets to same ol same ol, with not enough variety
So, one year or several years, what's your actual upper bound? In any case, I don't accept the premise. There might be an additional team incorporated, f'rinstance. And an AU component is only part of the mix. They're also going to want ANZ competition.
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I can understand the wish to have an entirely domestic comp rather than be subjected to another weekend like that just passed. That would in some small way alleviate the loss of interest, but it comes at the risk of not being exposed to a level of competence that would in time further degrade Australian rugby IMO.
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I can understand the wish to have an entirely domestic comp rather than be subjected to another weekend like that just passed. That would in some small way alleviate the loss of interest, but it comes at the risk of not being exposed to a level of competence that would in time further degrade Australian rugby IMO.
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@antipodean i don't think that really holds up. We've been playing NZ more than anyone and we are worse than ever in the pro era.
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i don't think that really holds up. We've been playing NZ more than anyone and we are worse than ever in the pro era.
Imagine how bad they'd be if they weren't?
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
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@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i don't think that really holds up. We've been playing NZ more than anyone and we are worse than ever in the pro era.
Imagine how bad they'd be if they weren't?
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
But to be honest I wouldn't read too much into the last round of games. Sure we're a step below the Kiwis, but I actually would argue we might be closer across the board than we were 3-4 years ago.
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@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i don't think that really holds up. We've been playing NZ more than anyone and we are worse than ever in the pro era.
Imagine how bad they'd be if they weren't?
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i don't think that really holds up. We've been playing NZ more than anyone and we are worse than ever in the pro era.
Imagine how bad they'd be if they weren't?
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Agreed. AU rugby has suffered in spite of NZ competition, not because of.
Take the scrum for example, imagine what would happen against France if their only opponents had been themselves? Carnage.
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@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kev said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
But lots of times guys can’t move despite best efforts because the arriving players lock them in.
And most of those lots of times, guys have put themselves on the wrong side and get locked in by arriving players. How can they avoid getting locked in? Don't get on the wrong side!
It happens very occasionally that players are genuinely in the way through no fault of their own and it's probably the one thing refs get right most often.
I was moaning about one last week though
What you want though is consistency.
I could find easily a dozen examples during the game of players on the wrong side that weren’t penalised because they didn’t affect play, yet this one does.
I think I mentioned it in the match thread that the danger with refs like this one is that when playing advantage (or after a warning) they change the standard by which they judge.
The guy’s method was play advantage for a technical penalty then focus on the offending side looking for any minor transgression and keep racking up the penalties until producing a YC.
Another example of a minor infringement that caused a chain was DMac defending the line with his fingers in the field of play. Correct technical penalty that started a mindset of looking for a reason to YC. -
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
But to be honest I wouldn't read too much into the last round of games. Sure we're a step below the Kiwis, but I actually would argue we might be closer across the board than we were 3-4 years ago.
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
But to be honest I wouldn't read too much into the last round of games. Sure we're a step below the Kiwis, but I actually would argue we might be closer across the board than we were 3-4 years ago.
I certainly hope so. It would be disastrous if Australian rugby had regressed from 2017 levels. The expectation is that the Australian teams have reset their knowledge of the standard required to compete and the schedule evens out.
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@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
But to be honest I wouldn't read too much into the last round of games. Sure we're a step below the Kiwis, but I actually would argue we might be closer across the board than we were 3-4 years ago.
I certainly hope so. It would be disastrous if Australian rugby had regressed from 2017 levels. The expectation is that the Australian teams have reset their knowledge of the standard required to compete and the schedule evens out.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
Even then the population of NSW and QLD easily outstrips NZ, which gets raided by the NRL for talent.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
<<<Insert rant about RA's complete neglect of Western Sydney here>>>
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@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
Even then the population of NSW and QLD easily outstrips NZ, which gets raided by the NRL for talent.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@barbarian said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
It's not being beaten that's reducing skills in Australia. It's the incompetent administration.
Well that and the massive offshore talent drain, coupled with the increasing competition for young talent from other codes.
Australia isn't alone in facing those problems.
That's true, but I'd argue they face a unique set of circumstances with the landscape in Australian sport. The competition from AFL being a central part of that, as is the relative dominance of rugby league.
Even then the population of NSW and QLD easily outstrips NZ, which gets raided by the NRL for talent.
Yeah I know, as I said before everyone faces the problem to a varying extent. And I'm not just comparing to NZ here.
But rugby is in the ascendancy in NZ, and it's just not over here. That's a pretty big pull factor to have if you're a young player.
Obviously there are many other reasons why things are the way they are now, but competition for young talent is one factor.
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@crucial said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
I could find easily a dozen examples during the game of players on the wrong side that weren’t penalised
Go on then. Is it as easily as Tiatia scores tries?
@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@crucial said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
I could find easily a dozen examples during the game of players on the wrong side that weren’t penalised
Go on then. Is it as easily as Tiatia scores tries?
Do you want circles or arrows?
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@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@crucial said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
I could find easily a dozen examples during the game of players on the wrong side that weren’t penalised
Go on then. Is it as easily as Tiatia scores tries?
Do you want circles or arrows?
@crucial said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@bones said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@crucial said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
I could find easily a dozen examples during the game of players on the wrong side that weren’t penalised
Go on then. Is it as easily as Tiatia scores tries?
Do you want circles or arrows?
Probably doesn't matter as long as it spells CHIEFS RULZ
