Super Rugby 2022
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
You can blame the Covid> >
Brumbies vs Redsat least one Aussie team will survive to Week 2.
Highlanders with nothing to lose will be a seriously tough opponent - some reward for finishing top!
Looks like 2nd-placed Crusaders will get an easier route to the final with a Quarter & Semi against Australian opposition, meanwhile Blues will likely face the Highlanders - then Chiefs or Hurricanes, despite topping the SR ladder. You can blame the covid induced restructuring of the draw for that one.
yep, that's knockout rugby. Can't control it unfortunately. I keep banging the drum that to get to where we are is a massive result; if we get upset in the playoffs, so be it -- but the Blues have come a massively long way and still getting better.
If we have to win against 3 NZ sides in consecutive weeks, that'll be as hard an ask as any Super tournament to date. The only thing in our favour is home advantage
Crusaders 2017 season. Highlanders, Chiefs, Lions in Joburg, despite only losing 1 game that season (and you know how bent the refs always were in Joburg during the playoffs). I'd suggest that takes the cake for most impressive Super Rugby campaign.
Contrast: Blues 2022 season (assuming QF SF wins)
Highlanders, Chiefs/Canes, Crusaders, despite only losing 1 game that season (and you know how bent the refs always were about the Saders during the playoffs). I'd suggest that takes the cake for most impressive Super Rugby campaign.
12 hour flight, away team, 60,000+ home crowd, played at altitude on highveld.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
You can blame the Covid> >
Brumbies vs Redsat least one Aussie team will survive to Week 2.
Highlanders with nothing to lose will be a seriously tough opponent - some reward for finishing top!
Looks like 2nd-placed Crusaders will get an easier route to the final with a Quarter & Semi against Australian opposition, meanwhile Blues will likely face the Highlanders - then Chiefs or Hurricanes, despite topping the SR ladder. You can blame the covid induced restructuring of the draw for that one.
yep, that's knockout rugby. Can't control it unfortunately. I keep banging the drum that to get to where we are is a massive result; if we get upset in the playoffs, so be it -- but the Blues have come a massively long way and still getting better.
If we have to win against 3 NZ sides in consecutive weeks, that'll be as hard an ask as any Super tournament to date. The only thing in our favour is home advantage
Crusaders 2017 season. Highlanders, Chiefs, Lions in Joburg, despite only losing 1 game that season (and you know how bent the refs always were in Joburg during the playoffs). I'd suggest that takes the cake for most impressive Super Rugby campaign.
Contrast: Blues 2022 season (assuming QF SF wins)
Highlanders, Chiefs/Canes, Crusaders, despite only losing 1 game that season (and you know how bent the refs always were about the Saders during the playoffs). I'd suggest that takes the cake for most impressive Super Rugby campaign.
12 hour flight, away team, 60,000+ home crowd, played at altitude on highveld.
ah it was impressive. But compared to the 10 title crusaders? At best a wash ...
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The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
Brumbies vs Reds
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
Brumbies vs Reds
Chiefs, Canes, Tahs order has potential to mix up a bit from that. Chiefs could well stay ahead of Canes (the loss against MP potentially costing a home quarter)
Tahs should lose in the last round against the Blues but you never know with cover or resting players.My guess is just a swap of Canes/Chiefs for home game (i.e. the current table), although Tahs could stay below Reds.
Saders v Reds and Brumbies v Tahs could be better for NZ. Brumbies/Tahs games are often brutal.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
Brumbies vs Reds
Chiefs, Canes, Tahs order has potential to mix up a bit from that. Chiefs could well stay ahead of Canes (the loss against MP potentially costing a home quarter)
Tahs should lose in the last round against the Blues but you never know with cover or resting players.My guess is just a swap of Canes/Chiefs for home game (i.e. the current table), although Tahs could stay below Reds.
Saders v Reds and Brumbies v Tahs could be better for NZ. Brumbies/Tahs games are often brutal.
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
Brumbies vs Reds
Chiefs, Canes, Tahs order has potential to mix up a bit from that. Chiefs could well stay ahead of Canes (the loss against MP potentially costing a home quarter)
Tahs should lose in the last round against the Blues but you never know with cover or resting players.My guess is just a swap of Canes/Chiefs for home game (i.e. the current table), although Tahs could stay below Reds.
Saders v Reds and Brumbies v Tahs could be better for NZ. Brumbies/Tahs games are often brutal.
Chiefs would need to lose to Drua next week. Hurricanes will finish 5th, Chiefs 4th, Brumbies 3rd.
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A competition where 66.67% of the teams make the play offs is seriously flawed.
The Highlanders winning just 35.7% of their games should be no where near a finals berth. And that’s assuming they beat the Rebels, which going off yesterdays form is a 50/50 proposition, so that number could drop to 28.5%.
I’d much prefer a 6 team play off system, top 2 seeds get the bye, 3v6 & 4v5 play quarter finals.
That way you’ve got the Tahs and Reds both at 57% win rate battling for the last playoff spot.
That had a much more balanced look to it.
But in saying that I’d take this system every day of the week ending in a y, over the shambolic conference system we’ve suffered through over the past few years.
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A competition where 66.67% of the teams make the play offs is seriously flawed.
The Highlanders winning just 35.7% of their games should be no where near a finals berth. And that’s assuming they beat the Rebels, which going off yesterdays form is a 50/50 proposition, so that number could drop to 28.5%.
I’d much prefer a 6 team play off system, top 2 seeds get the bye, 3v6 & 4v5 play quarter finals.
That way you’ve got the Tahs and Reds both at 57% win rate battling for the last playoff spot.
That had a much more balanced look to it.
But in saying that I’d take this system every day of the week ending in a y, over the shambolic conference system we’ve suffered through over the past few years.
@Gunner in fairness, when they developed the comp there were no guarantees that all the games would be played.
So I think it's twofold - a hedge against cancelled games and teams not missing out because of that, and a naked money grab to get more revenue at the pointy end fo the season. I can understand both.
But yeah, from a rugby point of view it's a bit silly. The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
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The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Blues vs Highlanders
Crusaders vs Waratahs
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
Brumbies vs Reds
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
The playoff picture looks set in stone unless Tahs can upset Landers (which they won't).
Aged like milk
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@Gunner in fairness, when they developed the comp there were no guarantees that all the games would be played.
So I think it's twofold - a hedge against cancelled games and teams not missing out because of that, and a naked money grab to get more revenue at the pointy end fo the season. I can understand both.
But yeah, from a rugby point of view it's a bit silly. The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth? -
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line. -
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
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@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
Yeah - I guess my personal cut-off point is Super 12, professionalism...
But if one wanted to, one could argue going back as far as Super 6... or even earlier -
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@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
They were created for the super 12. Expansion baby
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
Waratahs and Red were pretty much in existence before hand weren't they
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
They were created for the super 12. Expansion baby
so where the blues, chiefs, canes, saders and landers
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
Waratahs and Red were pretty much in existence before hand weren't they
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
They were created for the super 12. Expansion baby
so where the blues, chiefs, canes, saders and landers
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
Waratahs and Red were pretty much in existence before hand weren't they
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kruse said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
The entire round robin is figuring out which established teams joined the 2 expansion teams in missing the playoffs
I would correct that to:
The entire round robin is figuring out the order of all the established teams, with all 4 expansion teams getting some experience, but not invited to playoffs
now I feel dumb.
Moana Pacifica and Drua were expansion. (edit: and the ones I was thinking about)
Force were kinda expansion, but existed before the end of last year.
Who's the fourth?I still consider Moana Macifica, Drua, Force, Rebels - all expansion teams.
Sure - some of them were an earlier expansion - but it's a pretty clearly defined line between "OG teams" and "expansion teams" when it comes to the playoff line.By that argument, the Brumbies are an expansion team
They were an original Super 12 team so wouldn't be considered expansion?
They were created for the super 12. Expansion baby
so where the blues, chiefs, canes, saders and landers
I'll go with that.
