Super Rugby 2022
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
I think they are fucking this up a bit, but I also think it is NZ that is doing that. We simply have to have Oz sides in the finals (or final) to keep global interest.
Playing those in your conference twice and those in the other once is only imperfect if we have a finals series where we need cross-over games. Why not have a semi-final and final in each conference (SR Aotearoa, SR Australia) then those winners play in the Super rugby Ta$man final?
I would prefer that to the rubbish they are proposing above. The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
I think they are fucking this up a bit, but I also think it is NZ that is doing that. We simply have to have Oz sides in the finals (or final) to keep global interest.
Playing those in your conference twice and those in the other once is only imperfect if we have a finals series where we need cross-over games. Why not have a semi-final and final in each conference (SR Aotearoa, SR Australia) then those winners play in the Super rugby Ta$man final?
I would prefer that to the rubbish they are proposing above. The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
That's pretty existential on a sports forum man.
I do see where you are coming from, but I guess it would be a situation where all the country would get behind that one team for one big game.
All of the teams would still play in the cross-over round robin games, like the NBA, but at finals time you wouldn't see the other conference unless you made it that far.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
I think they are fucking this up a bit, but I also think it is NZ that is doing that. We simply have to have Oz sides in the finals (or final) to keep global interest.
Playing those in your conference twice and those in the other once is only imperfect if we have a finals series where we need cross-over games. Why not have a semi-final and final in each conference (SR Aotearoa, SR Australia) then those winners play in the Super rugby Ta$man final?
I would prefer that to the rubbish they are proposing above. The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
I agree. In all of the big 4 US pro sports you still have conference/league SFs/finals, rather than just 1 vs 1. One extra game is not going to make a huge difference to the broadcasting revenue.
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@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
I think they are fucking this up a bit, but I also think it is NZ that is doing that. We simply have to have Oz sides in the finals (or final) to keep global interest.
Playing those in your conference twice and those in the other once is only imperfect if we have a finals series where we need cross-over games. Why not have a semi-final and final in each conference (SR Aotearoa, SR Australia) then those winners play in the Super rugby Ta$man final?
I would prefer that to the rubbish they are proposing above. The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
That's pretty existential on a sports forum man.
I do see where you are coming from, but I guess it would be a situation where all the country would get behind that one team for one big game.
All of the teams would still play in the cross-over round robin games, like the NBA, but at finals time you wouldn't see the other conference unless you made it that far.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
I think they are fucking this up a bit, but I also think it is NZ that is doing that. We simply have to have Oz sides in the finals (or final) to keep global interest.
Playing those in your conference twice and those in the other once is only imperfect if we have a finals series where we need cross-over games. Why not have a semi-final and final in each conference (SR Aotearoa, SR Australia) then those winners play in the Super rugby Ta$man final?
I would prefer that to the rubbish they are proposing above. The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
That's pretty existential on a sports forum man.
I do see where you are coming from, but I guess it would be a situation where all the country would get behind that one team for one big game.
All of the teams would still play in the cross-over round robin games, like the NBA, but at finals time you wouldn't see the other conference unless you made it that far.
Oh, didn’t realise there would still be cross over games under your structure. Thought you meant they would be completely separate then come together for literally one game a season.
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
I think they are fucking this up a bit, but I also think it is NZ that is doing that. We simply have to have Oz sides in the finals (or final) to keep global interest.
Playing those in your conference twice and those in the other once is only imperfect if we have a finals series where we need cross-over games. Why not have a semi-final and final in each conference (SR Aotearoa, SR Australia) then those winners play in the Super rugby Ta$man final?
I would prefer that to the rubbish they are proposing above. The problem is that it then ends up being just one game. What is the point?
That's pretty existential on a sports forum man.
I do see where you are coming from, but I guess it would be a situation where all the country would get behind that one team for one big game.
All of the teams would still play in the cross-over round robin games, like the NBA, but at finals time you wouldn't see the other conference unless you made it that far.
Oh, didn’t realise there would still be cross over games under your structure. Thought you meant they would be completely separate then come together for literally one game a season.
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
or - for extra time - a straight knockout tournament, FA Cup style. 1-4 go through, 5-12 drop to 4, then quarters, semi, final.
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@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
or - for extra time - a straight knockout tournament, FA Cup style. 1-4 go through, 5-12 drop to 4, then quarters, semi, final.
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
or - for extra time - a straight knockout tournament, FA Cup style. 1-4 go through, 5-12 drop to 4, then quarters, semi, final.
This is a pretty good idea too! I wish they'd consider some different options.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
or - for extra time - a straight knockout tournament, FA Cup style. 1-4 go through, 5-12 drop to 4, then quarters, semi, final.
This is a pretty good idea too! I wish they'd consider some different options.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@pukunui said in Super Rugby 2022:
If a full 12 team home and away season with 4 team finals based on merit isn’t viable then my vote would be the old S12 style single game round robin and 4 team semis with any extra time in the calendar filled with an annual 2-3 game North vs South series.
or - for extra time - a straight knockout tournament, FA Cup style. 1-4 go through, 5-12 drop to 4, then quarters, semi, final.
This is a pretty good idea too! I wish they'd consider some different options.
hell, you could start it with minor qualifying the week of the final, since only 2 teams are involved. Would give everyone at least a week off in the middle (2 for 2 beaten semifinalists), and finish three weeks later. Every game means something, it'd be short sharp and fun
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I'm not sure how RA expects to have revenue sharing for domestic broadcasting deals, when Sky is paying NZR considerably more than Stan/Nine is to RA. I would have thought both parties could share overseas broadcasting revenue for a combined competition but retain their own domestic broadcasting revenue. The imbalance is a reflection of the importance of rugby to each countries broadcaster.
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An interesting story about who owns each of the 5 NZ franchises. The Chiefs, for example, have a complicated ownership structure. It's no wonder that the Hurricanes are so Wellington-centric as it appears that Manawatu and Hawke's Bay unions don't own any shares but H-K does.
HURRICANES
Wellington Rugby – 50 per cent
Horowhenua-Kapiti Rugby – 3 per cent
Paul Collins (Cohiba Traders) – 22 per cent
Liz Dawson (Forsyth Morison) – 12.5 per cent
Troy Bowker's 12.5 per cent share was sold last week, but the buyer is not yet known. -
Surprising new format for Super Rugby revealed
However damaged transtasman relations are, they have held up for long enough to enable administrators from New Zealand and Australia to agree a compromise deal on what Super Rugby will look like next year.
Agreement has been reached that all 12 teams in next year's competition will play each other once, with a further three round-robin fixtures to be randomly allocated, before eight teams feature in a traditional playoff format which will see number one on the ladder play number eight and so forth.
The mechanism to determine which three 'additional' opponents each team will play has not yet been determined.
The Herald understands that while Rugby Australia wanted these extra games to be domestic fixtures – Australian teams playing Australian teams and New Zealand teams playing New Zealand teams – that won't be the case.
Their request was not granted amid concerns that the competition would instantly lack integrity if there was a heavy weighting on local derbies – with New Zealand sides having argued in the past that this creates inequity and sets them a much harder path to reach the finals than their Australian rivals.
A formula is being developed based on how the transtasman table finished this year and the only certainty to date is that the two new teams, Moana Pasifika and Fiji Drua, will definitely play each other twice in 2022.
In practice this means the Blues, for example, will play every team in the competition once, with three other games – likely to comprise one fixture against a team that finished close to the top of the transtasman table, one against a mid-level finisher and one against a side that came near the bottom – split to ensure they host a total of seven home fixtures.
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Surprising new format for Super Rugby revealed
However damaged transtasman relations are, they have held up for long enough to enable administrators from New Zealand and Australia to agree a compromise deal on what Super Rugby will look like next year.
Agreement has been reached that all 12 teams in next year's competition will play each other once, with a further three round-robin fixtures to be randomly allocated, before eight teams feature in a traditional playoff format which will see number one on the ladder play number eight and so forth.
The mechanism to determine which three 'additional' opponents each team will play has not yet been determined.
The Herald understands that while Rugby Australia wanted these extra games to be domestic fixtures – Australian teams playing Australian teams and New Zealand teams playing New Zealand teams – that won't be the case.
Their request was not granted amid concerns that the competition would instantly lack integrity if there was a heavy weighting on local derbies – with New Zealand sides having argued in the past that this creates inequity and sets them a much harder path to reach the finals than their Australian rivals.
A formula is being developed based on how the transtasman table finished this year and the only certainty to date is that the two new teams, Moana Pasifika and Fiji Drua, will definitely play each other twice in 2022.
In practice this means the Blues, for example, will play every team in the competition once, with three other games – likely to comprise one fixture against a team that finished close to the top of the transtasman table, one against a mid-level finisher and one against a side that came near the bottom – split to ensure they host a total of seven home fixtures.
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I'm never a fan of structures with these random games, teams that have to play the crusaders or blues have a slightly harder road than those playing the tahs for example
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Someone should just come up with a system that you don't play the same 3 teams (as the extra games) in consecutive seasons and rotate opponents. The strength of teams could change from season to season so if there is a simple method that is transparent no one can complain.
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Someone should just come up with a system that you don't play the same 3 teams (as the extra games) in consecutive seasons and rotate opponents. The strength of teams could change from season to season so if there is a simple method that is transparent no one can complain.
@bovidae said in Super Rugby 2022:
Someone should just come up with a system that you don't play the same 3 teams (as the extra games) in consecutive seasons and rotate opponents. The strength of teams could change from season to season so if there is a simple method that is transparent no one can complain.
Not perfect but better than ozzies getting an easy path. Key thing to me is no auromatic finals slots. NZR paying the lions share of Fiji and Pacific, I hope they trumpet this to the NH tossers out there, I think it's fair that ozzie get more money as they'll lose on gates with their non domestic games.
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@bovidae said in Super Rugby 2022:
Someone should just come up with a system that you don't play the same 3 teams (as the extra games) in consecutive seasons and rotate opponents. The strength of teams could change from season to season so if there is a simple method that is transparent no one can complain.
Not perfect but better than ozzies getting an easy path. Key thing to me is no auromatic finals slots. NZR paying the lions share of Fiji and Pacific, I hope they trumpet this to the NH tossers out there, I think it's fair that ozzie get more money as they'll lose on gates with their non domestic games.
@machpants said in Super Rugby 2022:
@bovidae said in Super Rugby 2022:
Someone should just come up with a system that you don't play the same 3 teams (as the extra games) in consecutive seasons and rotate opponents. The strength of teams could change from season to season so if there is a simple method that is transparent no one can complain.
Not perfect but better than ozzies getting an easy path. Key thing to me is no auromatic finals slots. NZR paying the lions share of Fiji and Pacific, I hope they trumpet this to the NH tossers out there, I think it's fair that ozzie get more money as they'll lose on gates with their non domestic games.
Much better than what RA was proposing,I can live with this format,It is fairer than guaranteed Semi Finals etc.
I can see the Crusaders and Blues playing each other twice in this RR format,Blues first and Crusaders finished 3rd in TT comp, sets that up in the extra 3 games format.
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@derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
There is barely anything to like about this from an Aussie perspective. Fuck RA.
I honestly don't see what you hate so much about it. My recollection as a young kid (might be wrong, happy to be corrected) was that back in the late 70s early 80s we used used kick the shit out of the Wallabies routinely. I don't recall them ever having any national comp, just club rugby. The advent of the super rugby in all its forms (Super 6 or 10 or whatever it was) helped Australia to become a major world power in the game and you've won the RWC multiple times. I don't think you win those cups without transtasman rugby comps raising the level and ultimately bringing in money. What will Australia do if they go it alone? Rugby is the third code in Oz, it will always have a tough time growing (not to say they can't do better mind you). The last attempt at a national comp died a quick death didn't it? From where I'm sitting you need us as much as we all need each other
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@derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
There is barely anything to like about this from an Aussie perspective. Fuck RA.
I honestly don't see what you hate so much about it. My recollection as a young kid (might be wrong, happy to be corrected) was that back in the late 70s early 80s we used used kick the shit out of the Wallabies routinely. I don't recall them ever having any national comp, just club rugby. The advent of the super rugby in all its forms (Super 6 or 10 or whatever it was) helped Australia to become a major world power in the game and you've won the RWC multiple times. I don't think you win those cups without transtasman rugby comps raising the level and ultimately bringing in money. What will Australia do if they go it alone? Rugby is the third code in Oz, it will always have a tough time growing (not to say they can't do better mind you). The last attempt at a national comp died a quick death didn't it? From where I'm sitting you need us as much as we all need each other
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
There is barely anything to like about this from an Aussie perspective. Fuck RA.
I honestly don't see what you hate so much about it. My recollection as a young kid (might be wrong, happy to be corrected) was that back in the late 70s early 80s we used used kick the shit out of the Wallabies routinely. I don't recall them ever having any national comp, just club rugby. The advent of the super rugby in all its forms (Super 6 or 10 or whatever it was) helped Australia to become a major world power in the game and you've won the RWC multiple times. I don't think you win those cups without transtasman rugby comps raising the level and ultimately bringing in money. What will Australia do if they go it alone? Rugby is the third code in Oz, it will always have a tough time growing (not to say they can't do better mind you). The last attempt at a national comp died a quick death didn't it? From where I'm sitting you need us as much as we all need each other
It’d be 4th behind Loigue, Aussie Rules and Soccer wouldn’t it ?
