Red Card Lottery at the weekend
-
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
-
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
-
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Our friends in the NH, namely the poms and I think the Scots voted down the 20 minute red card. It ain’t happening.
-
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Totally agree.
I think 99% of people on here care greatly for player safety, and 80%+ want some movement away from reds meaning 14-man rugby after a non-malicious incident.
But I can't understand why people are choosing this incident as the hill to die on to make theit point. This isn't him in the defensive line, squaring up to make a hit and having a player adjust his height at the last minute to make incidental contact. This is a bloke running 25m at pace to try and make a huge hit, and he doesn't get nearly low enough. He chose his height, and it was blatantly wrong.
It's also a fucking shoulder charge which nobody seems to care about. His arm is pointing down, not wrapping around.
Shit tackle, right result.
-
I believe the shot was high and dangerous and he had plenty of time to aim lower. The issue is the impact a red usually has on the game and spectacle. Credit to Australia here but imagine WC Semi, full strength French side and it would likely be a different result.
I personally would prefer a red to be 10 minutes and not replaced. Reds used to be very rare and for when you bit off another players ear. Now we seem to have reds every weekend.
It is a team sport and one players brain fart or poor technique can fuck it for everyone. I just hope common sense prevails at some point.
-
@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Totally agree.
I think 99% of people on here care greatly for player safety, and 80%+ want some movement away from reds meaning 14-man rugby after a non-malicious incident.
But I can't understand why people are choosing this incident as the hill to die on to make theit point. This isn't him in the defensive line, squaring up to make a hit and having a player adjust his height at the last minute to make incidental contact. This is a bloke running 25m at pace to try and make a huge hit, and he doesn't get nearly low enough. He chose his height, and it was blatantly wrong.
It's also a fucking shoulder charge which nobody seems to care about. His arm is pointing down, not wrapping around.
Shit tackle, right result.
@voodoo said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Totally agree.
I think 99% of people on here care greatly for player safety, and 80%+ want some movement away from reds meaning 14-man rugby after a non-malicious incident.
But I can't understand why people are choosing this incident as the hill to die on to make theit point. This isn't him in the defensive line, squaring up to make a hit and having a player adjust his height at the last minute to make incidental contact. This is a bloke running 25m at pace to try and make a huge hit, and he doesn't get nearly low enough. He chose his height, and it was blatantly wrong.
It's also a fucking shoulder charge which nobody seems to care about. His arm is pointing down, not wrapping around.
Shit tackle, right result.
If you pause at the right spot (shows 4 seconds but probably just a frame) you can see that he also drove up. Pretty hard to convince anyone that he wasn't taking a high risk approach that came off wrong when you come in that hard and drive up enough to lift the ball carrier off their feet.
-
I'm a not sure how I feel about the Koirebete hit. It seems identical to the red in in the Wales/Arg game. In both cases I would lean towards yellow using a drop in body height as mitigation/excuse. On the other hand, in both cases the tackler chose to make huge hit which they were unable to control, so I don't have much sympathy for either tackler. The 20min red would have been the right result in both cases, but unfortunately that was voted down.
A bigger problem is the inconsistency of what is being picked up by the referee and TMO. After the SA A v Lions game Gatland in a presser tried to argue that Faf should have seen red for his hit on Wyn Jones. Erasmus fired back on Twitter raising a couple of hits that were not reviewed (https://mobile.twitter.com/rassierugby/status/1416003415109521408. .https://mobile.twitter.com/RassieRugby/status/1416002381486174214 If we really want change behavior it is far more important that every high hit is punished rather than picking instances at random for severe punishment. I am reminded of story in Victorian England when pick pockets would be executed in public hangings. But people would continue to pick pocket at these events because the risk of being caught was so low.
-
@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Totally agree.
I think 99% of people on here care greatly for player safety, and 80%+ want some movement away from reds meaning 14-man rugby after a non-malicious incident.
But I can't understand why people are choosing this incident as the hill to die on to make theit point. This isn't him in the defensive line, squaring up to make a hit and having a player adjust his height at the last minute to make incidental contact. This is a bloke running 25m at pace to try and make a huge hit, and he doesn't get nearly low enough. He chose his height, and it was blatantly wrong.
It's also a fucking shoulder charge which nobody seems to care about. His arm is pointing down, not wrapping around.
Shit tackle, right result.
@voodoo yeah I find this one quite similar to the Ofa red card. Far from malicious and not exactly aimed at the head - but just aimed too high and dangerous as a result. Like I said for the Ofa one - if MK had aimed at the midriff instead of the shoulder, the highlight would be on smashed em bro.
-
@voodoo yeah I find this one quite similar to the Ofa red card. Far from malicious and not exactly aimed at the head - but just aimed too high and dangerous as a result. Like I said for the Ofa one - if MK had aimed at the midriff instead of the shoulder, the highlight would be on smashed em bro.
-
After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
-
After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
-
After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
@kirwan said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
thats what ive been coming around too
My understanding was "intent" was deliberately excluded from the decision making process because they didnt want the refs to have to judge that...but they're having to interpret so much other stuff we might as well give them that latitude, give them the chance to stop a game from being ruined just because someone couldn't react in a fraction of a second
-
@jc said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@kirwan An Orange card?
We talked about the amber card years back I seem to remember
@nta said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@jc said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@kirwan An Orange card?
We talked about the amber card years back I seem to remember
"Wallaby-Gold" card?
-
I see Koroibete has been cleared and free to play in next game. Apparently first contact was with shoulder mitigating the red. I think this shows perhaps it's not fair to place the decision on the ref and TMO at the time and a report system like NRL makes more sense. Let the panel with multiple angles and time decide if it's red and deserves a suspension.
You could imagine how pissed off the Wallabies would have been if they lost.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@bones my point is it can be a circular argument
if the player isn't watching the ball and jumps, competes, but doesn't get it...its quite likely he'll get done for not having a realistic chance of regathering...how could he...but if he never takes his eye of the ball...its hard to know where other players are...do he could go up...but the only thing stopping him getting it is another player...he didn't know about because he was watching the ball
In this case, hes tried to watch both and decided to tackle rather than go for the ball, even drops into the tackle, what he hasn't seen is the wales player drop slightly upon catching and so they go head to head to shoulder to shoulder
yes, starting point is RED but for me there are mitigating circumstances
You can see the ground covered and both go from standing to crouched and a second doesn't pass
I know, its just me, i hate seeing these red cards where in my mind there is no malice past past trying to make the perfectly timed tackle, i see it very different to the DMac tackle for example where hes lined him up from a mile away, and even then on first watching i tought it was just a huge hit, only on the reply did i click the hit to the head
Well there's a shock, Kieran Hardy is 1.85m tall (I was expecting him to be much shorter)
So even with a 30cm loss in height for knee bend and shoulder slouch and 20cm for ground to over the boot height, that still leaves a 1.35m target zone.
Great tackling technique, poor execution.
First contact to ball carrier's head.
Clear red.
Aim lower, be more accurate.
When SBW got his red card against the Lions, Rugbypass did the analysis on it and said that he had 0.4 seconds to adjust to the original tackle line due to the dynamic situation of how the play unfolded.
I think that is slightly less than playing a shot against Malcolm Marshall!
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
The answer is probably yes. I would like to see a scenario where this kind of red does not impact the game drastically and is a 10 or 20 minute sin in and then player is replaced and down to 14 men for the whole game where it is deemed an incident of foul play
-
When SBW got his red card against the Lions, Rugbypass did the analysis on it and said that he had 0.4 seconds to adjust to the original tackle line due to the dynamic situation of how the play unfolded.
I think that is slightly less than playing a shot against Malcolm Marshall!
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
The answer is probably yes. I would like to see a scenario where this kind of red does not impact the game drastically and is a 10 or 20 minute sin in and then player is replaced and down to 14 men for the whole game where it is deemed an incident of foul play
@dagrubster said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
No! It's really bloody simple and I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping it. Yes there will be the odd mistake, but MK's wasn't, Ofa's wasn't. Why? They were aiming too high!
It's a really simple concept to grasp that players with or receiving the ball aren't going to remain prone so that you can poleaxe them, they're going to perform an action to evade, reduce or break contact. The onus is on the tackler to tackle safely that means not aiming at the shoulders because it's pretty bloody likely the ball carrier will drop.
Why are there so many players that pretty much never tackle high? Are we to believe that's luck...or is it technique?
-
I see Koroibete has been cleared and free to play in next game. Apparently first contact was with shoulder mitigating the red. I think this shows perhaps it's not fair to place the decision on the ref and TMO at the time and a report system like NRL makes more sense. Let the panel with multiple angles and time decide if it's red and deserves a suspension.
You could imagine how pissed off the Wallabies would have been if they lost.
@chimoaus I hate this ruling - what the panel is saying is that the ref was wrong to rc the player. It was one of those calls where reasonable people can disagree and the panel can even conclude that they would have called it differently, but this is not an example of a wrong call. Don't ban Koriobete sure, but saying he did nothing wrong is just objectively wrong.
