Red Card Lottery at the weekend
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After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
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After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
@kirwan said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
thats what ive been coming around too
My understanding was "intent" was deliberately excluded from the decision making process because they didnt want the refs to have to judge that...but they're having to interpret so much other stuff we might as well give them that latitude, give them the chance to stop a game from being ruined just because someone couldn't react in a fraction of a second
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@jc said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@kirwan An Orange card?
We talked about the amber card years back I seem to remember
@nta said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@jc said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@kirwan An Orange card?
We talked about the amber card years back I seem to remember
"Wallaby-Gold" card?
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I see Koroibete has been cleared and free to play in next game. Apparently first contact was with shoulder mitigating the red. I think this shows perhaps it's not fair to place the decision on the ref and TMO at the time and a report system like NRL makes more sense. Let the panel with multiple angles and time decide if it's red and deserves a suspension.
You could imagine how pissed off the Wallabies would have been if they lost.
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@kiwiwomble said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@bones my point is it can be a circular argument
if the player isn't watching the ball and jumps, competes, but doesn't get it...its quite likely he'll get done for not having a realistic chance of regathering...how could he...but if he never takes his eye of the ball...its hard to know where other players are...do he could go up...but the only thing stopping him getting it is another player...he didn't know about because he was watching the ball
In this case, hes tried to watch both and decided to tackle rather than go for the ball, even drops into the tackle, what he hasn't seen is the wales player drop slightly upon catching and so they go head to head to shoulder to shoulder
yes, starting point is RED but for me there are mitigating circumstances
You can see the ground covered and both go from standing to crouched and a second doesn't pass
I know, its just me, i hate seeing these red cards where in my mind there is no malice past past trying to make the perfectly timed tackle, i see it very different to the DMac tackle for example where hes lined him up from a mile away, and even then on first watching i tought it was just a huge hit, only on the reply did i click the hit to the head
Well there's a shock, Kieran Hardy is 1.85m tall (I was expecting him to be much shorter)
So even with a 30cm loss in height for knee bend and shoulder slouch and 20cm for ground to over the boot height, that still leaves a 1.35m target zone.
Great tackling technique, poor execution.
First contact to ball carrier's head.
Clear red.
Aim lower, be more accurate.
When SBW got his red card against the Lions, Rugbypass did the analysis on it and said that he had 0.4 seconds to adjust to the original tackle line due to the dynamic situation of how the play unfolded.
I think that is slightly less than playing a shot against Malcolm Marshall!
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
The answer is probably yes. I would like to see a scenario where this kind of red does not impact the game drastically and is a 10 or 20 minute sin in and then player is replaced and down to 14 men for the whole game where it is deemed an incident of foul play
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When SBW got his red card against the Lions, Rugbypass did the analysis on it and said that he had 0.4 seconds to adjust to the original tackle line due to the dynamic situation of how the play unfolded.
I think that is slightly less than playing a shot against Malcolm Marshall!
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
The answer is probably yes. I would like to see a scenario where this kind of red does not impact the game drastically and is a 10 or 20 minute sin in and then player is replaced and down to 14 men for the whole game where it is deemed an incident of foul play
@dagrubster said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
No! It's really bloody simple and I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping it. Yes there will be the odd mistake, but MK's wasn't, Ofa's wasn't. Why? They were aiming too high!
It's a really simple concept to grasp that players with or receiving the ball aren't going to remain prone so that you can poleaxe them, they're going to perform an action to evade, reduce or break contact. The onus is on the tackler to tackle safely that means not aiming at the shoulders because it's pretty bloody likely the ball carrier will drop.
Why are there so many players that pretty much never tackle high? Are we to believe that's luck...or is it technique?
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I see Koroibete has been cleared and free to play in next game. Apparently first contact was with shoulder mitigating the red. I think this shows perhaps it's not fair to place the decision on the ref and TMO at the time and a report system like NRL makes more sense. Let the panel with multiple angles and time decide if it's red and deserves a suspension.
You could imagine how pissed off the Wallabies would have been if they lost.
@chimoaus I hate this ruling - what the panel is saying is that the ref was wrong to rc the player. It was one of those calls where reasonable people can disagree and the panel can even conclude that they would have called it differently, but this is not an example of a wrong call. Don't ban Koriobete sure, but saying he did nothing wrong is just objectively wrong.
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When SBW got his red card against the Lions, Rugbypass did the analysis on it and said that he had 0.4 seconds to adjust to the original tackle line due to the dynamic situation of how the play unfolded.
I think that is slightly less than playing a shot against Malcolm Marshall!
Rugby is such a dynamic game at the gainline and tackle area that are we expecting too much from players at times, especially when they are travelling at speed and both are moving lower when tackling and anticipating contact?
The answer is probably yes. I would like to see a scenario where this kind of red does not impact the game drastically and is a 10 or 20 minute sin in and then player is replaced and down to 14 men for the whole game where it is deemed an incident of foul play
@dagrubster said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
When SBW got his red card against the Lions, Rugbypass did the analysis on it and said that he had 0.4 seconds to adjust to the original tackle line due to the dynamic situation of how the play unfolded.
Bullshit. We can debate all the other calls mentioned on this thread, but the SBW hit is looking back the easiest call ever. The most generous interpretation that you can have of that tackle is that he was body checking Watson to stop momentum while Watson was being tackled and that technique was not uncommon at that time. But it was always illegal, the contact was always going be questionable at best. Saying he had 0.4 to maybe not concede a red card is not a defence, it is clear evidence that the hit was always reckless.
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@chimoaus I hate this ruling - what the panel is saying is that the ref was wrong to rc the player. It was one of those calls where reasonable people can disagree and the panel can even conclude that they would have called it differently, but this is not an example of a wrong call. Don't ban Koriobete sure, but saying he did nothing wrong is just objectively wrong.
@sidbarret similarly over turning this RC essentially threw Gardner under the bus.
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@sidbarret similarly over turning this RC essentially threw Gardner under the bus.
@taniwharugby said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@sidbarret similarly over turning this RC essentially threw Gardner under the bus.
... and led to the 'Bridge' rule, where the offending player gets awarded a Penalty!
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Geez the atrocious article from Mark Reason on stuff really ignites this topic. It is what he ignores that is of interest. Hollywood's and late hits on AB's are sacrosanct and World Rugby's ruling on Koroibete is misguided... But hey anything in the name of player safety, so any pointed rubbishing of Southern hemisphere refs and players is entirely warranted. Makes me wonder about the editors of Stuff more than anything else.
The poor refs and players need a better deal in this trial by media. -
Geez the atrocious article from Mark Reason on stuff really ignites this topic. It is what he ignores that is of interest. Hollywood's and late hits on AB's are sacrosanct and World Rugby's ruling on Koroibete is misguided... But hey anything in the name of player safety, so any pointed rubbishing of Southern hemisphere refs and players is entirely warranted. Makes me wonder about the editors of Stuff more than anything else.
The poor refs and players need a better deal in this trial by media.@arhs i just went and read that, it's hilarious. I can imagine him grinning like a lunatic as he hammered it out.
