Poll: Foster reappointment
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@kiwiinmelb said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
unless im missing something ?
The glimmer of hope is that the reappointment isn't until the end of the year. Of course, actually finding an alternative that isn't active in NZ right now isn't likely.
most likely outcome: Foster gets reappointed, Robertson comes in as assistant (perhaps along with another ).
Why Would Robertson want to be associated and connected to Foster's coaching campaign,He may die with Foster without being able to have a shot doing it his way.
Sensible to wait and hope he gets a chance as Head Coach,Then at least if he fails it all on him,And he had a real crack at it. -
@chris well thats how Foster got the gig....
@taniwharugby said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@chris well thats how Foster got the gig....
The Whole problem right there,Nothing fresh at all for a million years.
Under that stupid system Plumtree is next AB Coach,God help us
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@taniwharugby said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@chris well thats how Foster got the gig....
The Whole problem right there,Nothing fresh at all for a million years.
Under that stupid system Plumtree is next AB Coach,God help us
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@chris sad but true.
It worked to re-appoint Henry, it worked to have Hansen as his successor, jury out over Fosters success (some will say it is clear) but we are at a cross road now...
@taniwharugby said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@chris sad but true.
It worked to re-appoint Henry, it worked to have Hansen as his successor, jury out over Fosters success (some will say it is clear) but we are at a cross road now...
Yes totally agree. The Devil at the Cross roads maybe,
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@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@voodoo said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
Other than Robertson, who else would put their hands up?
Gatland
MacdonaldThe best coaches didn't even bother applying last time (which tells you something abuot the process): Joseph, Rennie, Brown
Well those named coaches already had jobs lat time with countries who don't ask for applications, so a little bit of a furphy there mate. Joseph was already with Japan, and Rennie was with Aus
couldn't disagree more. They didn't throw their hats in the ring because the process looked so rigged to reappoint Foster.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
unless im missing something ?
The glimmer of hope is that the reappointment isn't until the end of the year. Of course, actually finding an alternative that isn't active in NZ right now isn't likely.
most likely outcome: Foster gets reappointed, Robertson comes in as assistant (perhaps along with another ).
@nzzp Well NZR have signer Robertson until 2024, I guessing with that's when they aiming for him to get job , along with hopefully Tony Brown ( who turned Robertson down last time) as 1 assistant, and maybe with Jamie Joseph.
Whether Foster keeps job or not is not a lot of skin off my nose, but the presumption od posters whose mani knowledge of how appointments are made etc that they know why he got job or Robertson missed or indeed why Joseph and Rennie didn't apply is breathtaking. -
@nzzp Well NZR have signer Robertson until 2024, I guessing with that's when they aiming for him to get job , along with hopefully Tony Brown ( who turned Robertson down last time) as 1 assistant, and maybe with Jamie Joseph.
Whether Foster keeps job or not is not a lot of skin off my nose, but the presumption od posters whose mani knowledge of how appointments are made etc that they know why he got job or Robertson missed or indeed why Joseph and Rennie didn't apply is breathtaking.@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp Well NZR have signer Robertson until 2024, I guessing with that's when they aiming for him to get job , along with hopefully Tony Brown ( who turned Robertson down last time) as 1 assistant, and maybe with Jamie Joseph.
Whether Foster keeps job or not is not a lot of skin off my nose, but the presumption od posters whose mani knowledge of how appointments are made etc that they know why he got job or Robertson missed or indeed why Joseph and Rennie didn't apply is breathtaking.Been here long?
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@nzzp You certainly make a huge assumption don't you? It's incredible how you can read their minds. Both had been offered jobs and accepted them well before NZR advertised and you reckon they had both flown the white flag??
@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp You certainly make a huge assumption don't you? It's incredible how you can read their minds. Both had been offered jobs and accepted them well before NZR advertised and you reckon they had both flown the white flag??
Pretty sure it was in media at the time - that the process was seen as a closed shop.
Plus, I'm a mind reader
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@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp Well NZR have signer Robertson until 2024, I guessing with that's when they aiming for him to get job , along with hopefully Tony Brown ( who turned Robertson down last time) as 1 assistant, and maybe with Jamie Joseph.
Whether Foster keeps job or not is not a lot of skin off my nose, but the presumption od posters whose mani knowledge of how appointments are made etc that they know why he got job or Robertson missed or indeed why Joseph and Rennie didn't apply is breathtaking.Been here long?
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@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp You certainly make a huge assumption don't you? It's incredible how you can read their minds. Both had been offered jobs and accepted them well before NZR advertised and you reckon they had both flown the white flag??
Pretty sure it was in media at the time - that the process was seen as a closed shop.
Plus, I'm a mind reader
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp You certainly make a huge assumption don't you? It's incredible how you can read their minds. Both had been offered jobs and accepted them well before NZR advertised and you reckon they had both flown the white flag??
Pretty sure it was in media at the time - that the process was seen as a closed shop.
Plus, I'm a mind reader
:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: Fair enough mate, mind you I probably read too much stuff over the years to know the media likes click bait more than being 100% correct.
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp You certainly make a huge assumption don't you? It's incredible how you can read their minds. Both had been offered jobs and accepted them well before NZR advertised and you reckon they had both flown the white flag??
Pretty sure it was in media at the time - that the process was seen as a closed shop.
Plus, I'm a mind reader
:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: Fair enough mate, mind you I probably read too much stuff over the years to know the media likes click bait more than being 100% correct.
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 you'd have to ask why prime candidates don't apply... It's more than timing I'm sure
They don’t want all the mental anguish, public berating, criticism, that will surely follow when holding “the most important job” in NZ?
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 you'd have to ask why prime candidates don't apply... It's more than timing I'm sure
Give it the benefit of the doubt. Assume it is a totally open contest and Joseph, Rennie and Gatland all throw their hats in the ring with Robertson and Foster.
Why would you turn down a guaranteed 4 year contract with Japan or Australia, or plumb Lions gig for a 20% chance of a two year contract with some of the drawbacks mentioned.
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 you'd have to ask why prime candidates don't apply... It's more than timing I'm sure
Well I thought the prime candidates that were available did apply (Foster and Razor). When Joseph and Rennie were offered jobs at beginning or year (a good 6 months before AB job was advertised) did you really think they would say no thanks, I will wait and take my chances later in year? Don't forget there was one job , and even if you discounted Foster, either Joseph (my choice) Rennie or Razor was going to miss out. I have been on rugby boards where we have appointed coaches (admittedly at club, and provincial level not international), and you know what, in most cases there were accusations of bias and already had coach picked etc, funnily by people who usually were associated with losing applicant etc. And seldom by people who were actually involved in process.
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
depends - does he think Bridge is one of our premier wingers or not?
If Robertson was the AB coach do you seriously think he wouldn't have selected Bridge in his squad? And he would have picked Bridge ahead of Clarke last year too.
The problem with having a coach going straight from a Super/provincial team to coach the ABs is that they tend to revert to selecting the players they know and are most familiar with. We saw that with Mains and Thorburn in the early 1990s and Mitchell and Deans with the Cantablacks.
@bovidae said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
depends - does he think Bridge is one of our premier wingers or not?
If Robertson was the AB coach do you seriously think he wouldn't have selected Bridge in his squad? And he would have picked Bridge ahead of Clarke last year too.
The problem with having a coach going straight from a Super/provincial team to coach the ABs is that they tend to revert to selecting the players they know and are most familiar with. We saw that with Mains and Thorburn in the early 1990s and Mitchell and Deans with the Cantablacks.
The interesting thing about the Cantablacks was that pre- that selection the Fern's voting ended up pretty much spot on the Cantablacks, as well!
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@bovidae said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
depends - does he think Bridge is one of our premier wingers or not?
If Robertson was the AB coach do you seriously think he wouldn't have selected Bridge in his squad? And he would have picked Bridge ahead of Clarke last year too.
The problem with having a coach going straight from a Super/provincial team to coach the ABs is that they tend to revert to selecting the players they know and are most familiar with. We saw that with Mains and Thorburn in the early 1990s and Mitchell and Deans with the Cantablacks.
The interesting thing about the Cantablacks was that pre- that selection the Fern's voting ended up pretty much spot on the Cantablacks, as well!
@chris-b said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@bovidae said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
depends - does he think Bridge is one of our premier wingers or not?
If Robertson was the AB coach do you seriously think he wouldn't have selected Bridge in his squad? And he would have picked Bridge ahead of Clarke last year too.
The problem with having a coach going straight from a Super/provincial team to coach the ABs is that they tend to revert to selecting the players they know and are most familiar with. We saw that with Mains and Thorburn in the early 1990s and Mitchell and Deans with the Cantablacks.
The interesting thing about the Cantablacks was that pre- that selection the Fern's voting ended up pretty much spot on the Cantablacks, as well!
those boys were pretty dominant... and then combinations come into play.
Kinda like Auckland + a few in the 80s/early 90s
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Can't see why you'd exclude him from the process? May as well let him pitch. Unless it meant tying up assistants from aligning with others I guess.
Other than Robertson, who else would put their hands up?
@voodoo said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
Can't see why you'd exclude him from the process? May as well let him pitch. Unless it meant tying up assistants from aligning with others I guess.
That pretty much shows the stupidity of having pre-assembled coaching teams apply. Something that harks back to the Henry-Deans contest....
Just appoint the Head Coach and then work together to pick the assistants.
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@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 you'd have to ask why prime candidates don't apply... It's more than timing I'm sure
Well I thought the prime candidates that were available did apply (Foster and Razor). When Joseph and Rennie were offered jobs at beginning or year (a good 6 months before AB job was advertised) did you really think they would say no thanks, I will wait and take my chances later in year? Don't forget there was one job , and even if you discounted Foster, either Joseph (my choice) Rennie or Razor was going to miss out. I have been on rugby boards where we have appointed coaches (admittedly at club, and provincial level not international), and you know what, in most cases there were accusations of bias and already had coach picked etc, funnily by people who usually were associated with losing applicant etc. And seldom by people who were actually involved in process.
@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 you'd have to ask why prime candidates don't apply... It's more than timing I'm sure
Well I thought the prime candidates that were available did apply (Foster and Razor). When Joseph and Rennie were offered jobs at beginning or year (a good 6 months before AB job was advertised) did you really think they would say no thanks, I will wait and take my chances later in year? Don't forget there was one job , and even if you discounted Foster, either Joseph (my choice) Rennie or Razor was going to miss out. I have been on rugby boards where we have appointed coaches (admittedly at club, and provincial level not international), and you know what, in most cases there were accusations of bias and already had coach picked etc, funnily by people who usually were associated with losing applicant etc. And seldom by people who were actually involved in process.
Well said. I have had similar experiences at a higher level, some very nasty indeed. Can't believe a lot of the accusations and inferences posted here on this topic. But, people will just think what they are predisposed to if it doesn't go their way, usually missing a whole lot of actual factors in the decision, process and selection.
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@dan54 said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@nzzp said in Poll: Foster reappointment:
@dan54 you'd have to ask why prime candidates don't apply... It's more than timing I'm sure
Well I thought the prime candidates that were available did apply (Foster and Razor). When Joseph and Rennie were offered jobs at beginning or year (a good 6 months before AB job was advertised) did you really think they would say no thanks, I will wait and take my chances later in year? Don't forget there was one job , and even if you discounted Foster, either Joseph (my choice) Rennie or Razor was going to miss out. I have been on rugby boards where we have appointed coaches (admittedly at club, and provincial level not international), and you know what, in most cases there were accusations of bias and already had coach picked etc, funnily by people who usually were associated with losing applicant etc. And seldom by people who were actually involved in process.
Well said. I have had similar experiences at a higher level, some very nasty indeed. Can't believe a lot of the accusations and inferences posted here on this topic. But, people will just think what they are predisposed to if it doesn't go their way, usually missing a whole lot of actual factors in the decision, process and selection.
@arhs @dan54 I think a lot of it is that the AB job is arguably the apex coaching role in world rugby.
Historically, no one else has the depth of talent to work with, or the interesting schedules. If you're a kiwi, it's like being an All Black - the pinnacle of the sport.
So, given that, the question is why you'd take a role with Japan. It's like Piutau or Hayman going overseas for the coin before they were All Blacks. It's legit - but a bit of a cop out.
There has been a lot of media about Foster and the desire of Hansen to see him appointed. The process was a shambles, and there is a bit of ret-conning going on in this thread. Rennie wasn't appointed until 20 November 2019, for instance. Joseph on 18 November 2019.
https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/28105744/jamie-joseph-continue-japan-coach-2023
https://australia.rugby/news/2019/11/19/qantas-wallabies-coach-appointment
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as a player being a all black increases your value hence why most people give this a good crack before heading overseas.
if rennie/ joseph applied for ABs job and missed out what would they had been left with. third pickings japan and aussie would have appointed coaches. would have cost them hugely. some people would have taken that risk but im picking not many. and theirs nothing stopping them applying in future with a better CV.
my biggest gripe was that off the two who applied was that both had a rather weak /unproven assistants with them
