Black Caps - Bangladesh tour 2021
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From info I have gleaned from other cricket forum.
The NZ Cricket Players Association have an agreement with NZC that players can't do 3 consecutive (or maybe back to back) away tours. I think this means 3 different quarantines/bubbles.
As this tour is going Bangladesh > Pakistan > UAE, that means there are 3.
What this means, is all 16 players from T20Wc weren't available.
This is fair enough for most. Those who are playing IPL and CPL (Phillips & Seiffert) will be getting plenty of cricket anyway and a better prep as Bangladesh produce wickets unlike any other T20 pitch in the world.
However. Where this falls through. Is that Mark Chapman and Todd Astle (who will have barely any cricket under their belt) also couldn't do this tour segment, but will do Pakistan and UAE.
This team will clearly struggle regardless. But to have 6 seamers for these conditions (up to 7 with Henry replacing Allen) and only 3 spin options for the whole tour is bonkers. Which is where I'm upset about Chapman and Astle. Even a Super Smash or Plunket Shield spinner instead of one of Kuggeleijn. Bennett, Tickner would be a better tour option. Sommerville as the old head would be a better option than Bennett as the old head. Once we are getting to 5th and 6th spin options for NZ, obviously things get thin for a country like us, but no use throwing too many seamers into an environment where their captain won't even want to bowl them. M Bracewell (part time spinner wasn't available due to baby birth, not sure who he was preferred to). Should have chosen Sommerville, or Lennox ahead of one of the seamers.
So, even with all the self imposed restrictions, they still left themselves short in their squad makeup, IMO.
I really enjoyed watching Ajaz bowl in helpful conditions last night. But unfortunately for all 5 matches (if we make it last the 20 overs), the captain will have to reluctantly give the ball to some raw seamers to get through 8 overs of seam per match.
The batsmen need to aim for team total of around 100, Disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals in this context, even Ravindra to an extent (pushing for a single first ball rather than blocking), this is not normal T20, recalibrate, should have known this in advance from the Aus series.
They'll get better. They've just come out of winter, then hotel isolation for 5 days in Dhaka, then a few days training.
But with too few spin options, even a 1-4 loss looks a tad too far IMO. Hope I'm not too pessimisitic.
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Hmmmmm as if to completely contradict my earlier post I looked closer and I see Blundell, Young, Latham and Nicholls were all playing ? That’s not ideal given they’re all established ( or soon to now that Watling has gone ) Black Caps.
None of them are in the T20 world cup team are they? Don't get me wrong, some of them should have put up more of a fight, and they'll get there chance with all games in the series apparently at the same venue...
The mystery of Doug Bracewells selection rears its head too……
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Hmmmmm as if to completely contradict my earlier post I looked closer and I see Blundell, Young, Latham and Nicholls were all playing ? That’s not ideal given they’re all established ( or soon to now that Watling has gone ) Black Caps.
None of them are in the T20 world cup team are they? Don't get me wrong, some of them should have put up more of a fight, and they'll get there chance with all games in the series apparently at the same venue...
The mystery of Doug Bracewells selection rears its head too……
Basically a forgotten man since Hobart
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From info I have gleaned from other cricket forum.
The NZ Cricket Players Association have an agreement with NZC that players can't do 3 consecutive (or maybe back to back) away tours. I think this means 3 different quarantines/bubbles.
As this tour is going Bangladesh > Pakistan > UAE, that means there are 3.
What this means, is all 16 players from T20Wc weren't available.
This is fair enough for most. Those who are playing IPL and CPL (Phillips & Seiffert) will be getting plenty of cricket anyway and a better prep as Bangladesh produce wickets unlike any other T20 pitch in the world.
However. Where this falls through. Is that Mark Chapman and Todd Astle (who will have barely any cricket under their belt) also couldn't do this tour segment, but will do Pakistan and UAE.
This team will clearly struggle regardless. But to have 6 seamers for these conditions (up to 7 with Henry replacing Allen) and only 3 spin options for the whole tour is bonkers. Which is where I'm upset about Chapman and Astle. Even a Super Smash or Plunket Shield spinner instead of one of Kuggeleijn. Bennett, Tickner would be a better tour option. Sommerville as the old head would be a better option than Bennett as the old head. Once we are getting to 5th and 6th spin options for NZ, obviously things get thin for a country like us, but no use throwing too many seamers into an environment where their captain won't even want to bowl them. M Bracewell (part time spinner wasn't available due to baby birth, not sure who he was preferred to). Should have chosen Sommerville, or Lennox ahead of one of the seamers.
So, even with all the self imposed restrictions, they still left themselves short in their squad makeup, IMO.
I really enjoyed watching Ajaz bowl in helpful conditions last night. But unfortunately for all 5 matches (if we make it last the 20 overs), the captain will have to reluctantly give the ball to some raw seamers to get through 8 overs of seam per match.
The batsmen need to aim for team total of around 100, Disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals in this context, even Ravindra to an extent (pushing for a single first ball rather than blocking), this is not normal T20, recalibrate, should have known this in advance from the Aus series.
They'll get better. They've just come out of winter, then hotel isolation for 5 days in Dhaka, then a few days training.
But with too few spin options, even a 1-4 loss looks a tad too far IMO. Hope I'm not too pessimisitic.
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@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.They knew that, talk by them before series was about that. Even the squad makeup of some of the batting options (their career domestic strike rates; Ravindra, Nicholls, McConchie, Blundell, reflected that knowledge of the different reality) Just 'didn't execute'.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Hmmmmm as if to completely contradict my earlier post I looked closer and I see Blundell, Young, Latham and Nicholls were all playing ? That’s not ideal given they’re all established ( or soon to now that Watling has gone ) Black Caps.
None of them are in the T20 world cup team are they? Don't get me wrong, some of them should have put up more of a fight, and they'll get there chance with all games in the series apparently at the same venue...
The mystery of Doug Bracewells selection rears its head too……
Basically a forgotten man since Hobart
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Hmmmmm as if to completely contradict my earlier post I looked closer and I see Blundell, Young, Latham and Nicholls were all playing ? That’s not ideal given they’re all established ( or soon to now that Watling has gone ) Black Caps.
None of them are in the T20 world cup team are they? Don't get me wrong, some of them should have put up more of a fight, and they'll get there chance with all games in the series apparently at the same venue...
The mystery of Doug Bracewells selection rears its head too……
Basically a forgotten man since Hobart
Indeed, he can dine out on that fantastic performance forever ( and if I’m honest it’s up there with our very best ) but what has he done since then ? Absolutely nothing. Talk about flattering to deceive…..
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
They just didn't play to the conditions. I expect a big improvement next game
Some talented and experienced batsmen all deciding to have bad days at once didn’t help either. One or more should score pretty big next time I’d imagine.
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
They just didn't play to the conditions. I expect a big improvement next game
Some talented and experienced batsmen all deciding to have bad days at once didn’t help either. One or more should score pretty big next time I’d imagine.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
They just didn't play to the conditions. I expect a big improvement next game
Some talented and experienced batsmen all deciding to have bad days at once didn’t help either. One or more should score pretty big next time I’d imagine.
Did we have any warm up games? We played like it was our first game. And the Bangles played as the home team should, with a confidence gained from beating the aussies
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.They knew that, talk by them before series was about that. Even the squad makeup of some of the batting options (their career domestic strike rates; Ravindra, Nicholls, McConchie, Blundell, reflected that knowledge of the different reality) Just 'didn't execute'.
@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.If you look at the Aus series, also played in Dhaka, the winning scores from memory ranged between 100 and 130, with Aus also being bowled out for around 60 in the last game. There were only a couple of players able to notch up a 50 across the 10 innings and a lot of very low scores.
Surely the goal has to be protecting your wicket and just seeing what runs you can get. Bat through and you will be close to 100 totalwise
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@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.If you look at the Aus series, also played in Dhaka, the winning scores from memory ranged between 100 and 130, with Aus also being bowled out for around 60 in the last game. There were only a couple of players able to notch up a 50 across the 10 innings and a lot of very low scores.
Surely the goal has to be protecting your wicket and just seeing what runs you can get. Bat through and you will be close to 100 totalwise
@jk said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.If you look at the Aus series, also played in Dhaka, the winning scores from memory ranged between 100 and 103, with Aus also being bowled out for around 60 in the last game. There were only a couple of players able to notch up a 50 across the 10 innings and a lot of very low scores.
Surely the goal has to be protecting your wicket and just seeing what runs you can get. Surely bat through and you will be close to 100 totalwise
It is, and I think we know this.
This team wasn't like the Australian squad - which was the typical T20 team of everone wanting to be an opener and biff in the power play.
This squad has batting the reflects that it will require some 'proper' batting. Just didn't execute last night, and in this context this is why I was disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals, even Bracewell.
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@jk said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.If you look at the Aus series, also played in Dhaka, the winning scores from memory ranged between 100 and 103, with Aus also being bowled out for around 60 in the last game. There were only a couple of players able to notch up a 50 across the 10 innings and a lot of very low scores.
Surely the goal has to be protecting your wicket and just seeing what runs you can get. Surely bat through and you will be close to 100 totalwise
It is, and I think we know this.
This team wasn't like the Australian squad - which was the typical T20 team of everone wanting to be an opener and biff in the power play.
This squad has batting the reflects that it will require some 'proper' batting. Just didn't execute last night, and in this context this is why I was disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals, even Bracewell.
@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.If you look at the Aus series, also played in Dhaka, the winning scores from memory ranged between 100 and 103, with Aus also being bowled out for around 60 in the last game. There were only a couple of players able to notch up a 50 across the 10 innings and a lot of very low scores.
Surely the goal has to be protecting your wicket and just seeing what runs you can get. Surely bat through and you will be close to 100 totalwise
It is, and I think we know this.
This team wasn't like the Australian squad - which was the typical T20 team of everone wanting to be an opener and biff in the power play.
This squad has batting the reflects that it will require some 'proper' batting. Just didn't execute last night, and in this context this is why I was disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals, even Bracewell.
His reputation as an all rounder supersedes his ability as an all rounder.
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@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@jk said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido Too many soft dismissals, they need to bat like a 4 day game or test, or at least apply themselves to that level. Anything around 130 to 150 will be a nightmare on that pitch
true, a nightmare.
110 should win.
100 good chance.
90, a bit of a chance (we'd struggle chasing that, them not so much)
80, better than nothing.
60, no chance.If you look at the Aus series, also played in Dhaka, the winning scores from memory ranged between 100 and 103, with Aus also being bowled out for around 60 in the last game. There were only a couple of players able to notch up a 50 across the 10 innings and a lot of very low scores.
Surely the goal has to be protecting your wicket and just seeing what runs you can get. Surely bat through and you will be close to 100 totalwise
It is, and I think we know this.
This team wasn't like the Australian squad - which was the typical T20 team of everone wanting to be an opener and biff in the power play.
This squad has batting the reflects that it will require some 'proper' batting. Just didn't execute last night, and in this context this is why I was disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals, even Bracewell.
His reputation as an all rounder supersedes his ability as an all rounder.
-
From info I have gleaned from other cricket forum.
The NZ Cricket Players Association have an agreement with NZC that players can't do 3 consecutive (or maybe back to back) away tours. I think this means 3 different quarantines/bubbles.
As this tour is going Bangladesh > Pakistan > UAE, that means there are 3.
What this means, is all 16 players from T20Wc weren't available.
This is fair enough for most. Those who are playing IPL and CPL (Phillips & Seiffert) will be getting plenty of cricket anyway and a better prep as Bangladesh produce wickets unlike any other T20 pitch in the world.
However. Where this falls through. Is that Mark Chapman and Todd Astle (who will have barely any cricket under their belt) also couldn't do this tour segment, but will do Pakistan and UAE.
This team will clearly struggle regardless. But to have 6 seamers for these conditions (up to 7 with Henry replacing Allen) and only 3 spin options for the whole tour is bonkers. Which is where I'm upset about Chapman and Astle. Even a Super Smash or Plunket Shield spinner instead of one of Kuggeleijn. Bennett, Tickner would be a better tour option. Sommerville as the old head would be a better option than Bennett as the old head. Once we are getting to 5th and 6th spin options for NZ, obviously things get thin for a country like us, but no use throwing too many seamers into an environment where their captain won't even want to bowl them. M Bracewell (part time spinner wasn't available due to baby birth, not sure who he was preferred to). Should have chosen Sommerville, or Lennox ahead of one of the seamers.
So, even with all the self imposed restrictions, they still left themselves short in their squad makeup, IMO.
I really enjoyed watching Ajaz bowl in helpful conditions last night. But unfortunately for all 5 matches (if we make it last the 20 overs), the captain will have to reluctantly give the ball to some raw seamers to get through 8 overs of seam per match.
The batsmen need to aim for team total of around 100, Disappointed with Nicholls and McConchie dismissals in this context, even Ravindra to an extent (pushing for a single first ball rather than blocking), this is not normal T20, recalibrate, should have known this in advance from the Aus series.
They'll get better. They've just come out of winter, then hotel isolation for 5 days in Dhaka, then a few days training.
But with too few spin options, even a 1-4 loss looks a tad too far IMO. Hope I'm not too pessimisitic.
@rapido 100% agree with this. From the squad selection, it looks like Worker wasn't even considered, yet he was one of the top batters in the Super Smash and his part time spin bowling would probably be more useful than one of the 7 fast-medium bowlers.
Allen can't play so instead of bringing over another batter, they bring the exact opposite of what you need in Bangladesh, another fast-medium bowler.
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@rapido 100% agree with this. From the squad selection, it looks like Worker wasn't even considered, yet he was one of the top batters in the Super Smash and his part time spin bowling would probably be more useful than one of the 7 fast-medium bowlers.
Allen can't play so instead of bringing over another batter, they bring the exact opposite of what you need in Bangladesh, another fast-medium bowler.
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido 100% agree with this. From the squad selection, it looks like Worker wasn't even considered, yet he was one of the top batters in the Super Smash and his part time spin bowling would probably be more useful than one of the 7 fast-medium bowlers.
Allen can't play so instead of bringing over another batter, they bring the exact opposite of what you need in Bangladesh, another fast-medium bowler.
( pops on grumpy old man hat, adjusts it and begins typing )
Does anyone really give two fucks how we go over there in this form of the game ? As a fan I’m sick of year upon year of us being plucky competitors in the short form(s) but then getting fucked up by embarrassing margins in the five day version. Let’s get all high and mighty and point out to arrogant aussies, pompous poms and the offensive bobs and vagene crew that we’re NUMBER ONE in the form of the game that is the real yardstick.
Fuck the others formats, mainly this one.
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Finn Allen is back with the squad. Get him straight back into the batting lineup instead of one of the quicks. I see from Google that he can even bowl occasional right arm
piesoff spin, which will probably be more effective than the pacemen on Bangladeshi pitches anyway. -
Finn Allen is back with the squad. Get him straight back into the batting lineup instead of one of the quicks. I see from Google that he can even bowl occasional right arm
piesoff spin, which will probably be more effective than the pacemen on Bangladeshi pitches anyway.@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Finn Allen is back with the squad. Get him straight back into the batting lineup instead of one of the quicks. I see from Google that he can even bowl occasional right arm
piesoff spin, which will probably be more effective than the pacemen on Bangladeshi pitches anyway.Righto, one wicket in all formats, ever. Still Doug Bracewell is an all rounder despite never getting a 50 so anything is possible I guess.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Finn Allen is back with the squad. Get him straight back into the batting lineup instead of one of the quicks. I see from Google that he can even bowl occasional right arm
piesoff spin, which will probably be more effective than the pacemen on Bangladeshi pitches anyway.Righto, one wicket in all formats, ever. Still Doug Bracewell is an all rounder despite never getting a 50 so anything is possible I guess.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
Finn Allen is back with the squad. Get him straight back into the batting lineup instead of one of the quicks. I see from Google that he can even bowl occasional right arm
piesoff spin, which will probably be more effective than the pacemen on Bangladeshi pitches anyway.Righto, one wicket in all formats, ever. Still Doug Bracewell is an all rounder despite never getting a 50 so anything is possible I guess.
In all seriousness I wondered last night whether any of the quicks might try a Colin Miller, given the match situation. One of those pitches where 'the slower the better'.
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@rapido 100% agree with this. From the squad selection, it looks like Worker wasn't even considered, yet he was one of the top batters in the Super Smash and his part time spin bowling would probably be more useful than one of the 7 fast-medium bowlers.
Allen can't play so instead of bringing over another batter, they bring the exact opposite of what you need in Bangladesh, another fast-medium bowler.
@labcat said in Black Caps vs Bangladesh:
@rapido 100% agree with this. From the squad selection, it looks like Worker wasn't even considered, yet he was one of the top batters in the Super Smash and his part time spin bowling would probably be more useful than one of the 7 fast-medium bowlers.
Allen can't play so instead of bringing over another batter, they bring the exact opposite of what you need in Bangladesh, another fast-medium bowler.
I thought they couldn't bring Worker because they didn't have an MIQ spot for him? We know this isn't the ideal squad but you are restricted with what you can do in the time of COVID. Ravindra is there doing the worker role.
