All Blacks vs Pumas II
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From what I saw George bridge made a knock on. He had otherwise had a solid but unspectacular match. 7/10. Would not be surprised to see him named vs SA he is good in the air.
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players. However the try was only on in the first place because of his step and speed. I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
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@african-monkey said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Hansen's spell from 2017-2019 was a disaster. He was exposed badly and ran the team into the ground, not that anyone seemed to care or take notice. Everyone just took his word as gospel (fans and media). He made some absolute howlers in that time and it has taken a little while to build the team back to where it should be, but we're getting there, cleaning up the mess that Hansen left the side in.
You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.
Fozzie seem to have building a good squad (I'm reserving judgement until we beat the Boks) but the way he's turned around players like Akira, looked for stability in key areas and developed depth in a lot of positions can't be denied.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.
My opinion of his 2016-2019 work has been tainted by what happened afterwards. He wanted to quit in 2017, and I did not want him to. In hindsight, it would probably have been the best option.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.
My opinion of his 2016-2019 work has been tainted by what happened afterwards. He wanted to quit in 2017, and I did not want him to. In hindsight, it would probably have been the best option.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
You may be a bit harsh on Hansen, but I have to agree he didn't leave the team in a great place and was focussed on getting over the line for a 3rd RWC win in a row, rather than continuity.
My opinion of his 2016-2019 work has been tainted by what happened afterwards. He wanted to quit in 2017, and I did not want him to. In hindsight, it would probably have been the best option.
I agree. I can't recall many people calling for him to step down in 2017. As it turned out maybe he'd lost a step mentally
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From what I saw George bridge made a knock on. He had otherwise had a solid but unspectacular match. 7/10. Would not be surprised to see him named vs SA he is good in the air.
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players. However the try was only on in the first place because of his step and speed. I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.
Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.
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I just rewatched with from start to finish so brief (not really!) thoughts on players ... my top 2 were probably Blackadder and Jordie.
Ethan Blackadder was fricken huge in the forwards. Even though I love Paps and have a slight Blues eye patch Blackadder's workrate and game was fantastic ... dominant tackling, lineout, linking well, doing the dirty stuff. Played like a 7/6 (which is how Paps plays tbh). I simply could not see 4 missed tackles, I saw one which was marginal and when the AB's were completely sliced open. He was out on his feet by 70-75 minutes. I'm so impressed.
Ardie was good but please keep him competing at 8 in the "A" team. I don't feel he's a better seven than Paps, Cane and on that evidence maybe Blackadder too. Hit quite a few rucks, tackled in his normal "half-dominant" scraggy style, ran well out wide.
Sotutu was silky smooth, lovely skills, but ... nothing new there? Jury is out for me still though because he needs to be tested defensively vs the Boks, England, France etc. His tackling technique looks to be naturally low and round the knees (maybe because he comes from a backs background?) which is fine until you're on the goal-line. Prefer Ardie and Jacobson for now.
Taukei'aho was a wrecking ball. I can't remember seeing that in an AB hooker since ... well I can't remember ... so tell me? :winking_face_with_tongue:
The locks, PT I just don't think he has anywhere near an AB workrate or dominance or ideally both for a starting lock. I saw Ardie hitting quite a few rucks the first half and wondered where our locks were. Tupou Vai had a pretty good start, looked like he had potential.
In the backs Jordie Barrett was great. Again huge workrate including as the second playmaker, hit the line well, made his tackles, good under the high ball. Big boot, kicks his goals. What's not to like, apart from the odd brain-fart which hopefully will pass? A real old school full-back (in a good way) plus the playmaker aspect plus the goalkicking. Took one AFL style catch Folau style. Great stuff.
DMac played conservatively and pretty well. Actually I'd liked to have seen him run more! There were a few half gaps maybe he should have tried, but he was focussed on his core job so overall was good.
Don't kill me but I though George Bridge was very solid, good even, and they might go for him specifically for the Boks given their conservative/kicking style of play. I wouldn't blame Fozzie tbh. There's enough attacking firepower elsewhere ... recently.
Finally I thought Jaco Peyper was his normal fair but pedantic self ... BUT I re-watched Rieko's (non) try at about 30-31 minutes a few times and
seriously wonderwrongly wondered, see below if it would have stood had Peyper gone to the TMO? It looked 50/50 to me if he was held or slipped the tackle at the last minute.I got the impression Peyper had certain pre-conceived areas of the game he wanted to clamp down on.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.
Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.
@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.
Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.
It was an intercept in the making, the argie shot up in anticipation!
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.
Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.
@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.
Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.
My impression live, but agree on rewatch.
Also wonder if the try should have stood, whether he was held or not looked marginal.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?
The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.
Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Rieko also made a knock on. He also blew a certain try by not passing to unmarked players.
Not sure if it was a certain try. TJ was covered.
My impression live, but agree on rewatch.
Also wonder if the try should have stood, whether he was held or not looked marginal.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?
The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.
Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?
The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.
Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.
my only real problem with RI now is he's still out best 11, so while he's trying to learn a new position we're calling him back out to the wing every few games to sort shit out
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones Obviously test match level, you absolute nimrod.
That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones Obviously test match level, you absolute nimrod.
That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?
It’s someone who eats their food in seperate parts, we use the term all the time in my house. Most of my kids are Grade A nimrods
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?
Hunt submarines?
Shave faces now - all reduced razor blades
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?
Hunt submarines?
Shave faces now - all reduced razor blades
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?
Hunt submarines?
Shave faces now - all reduced razor blades
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
That's really cool man. What do nimrods do?
Hunt submarines?
Shave faces now - all reduced razor blades
Almost as big a fuck-up as Cane's non-selection for the RWC2019 Semi.
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?
The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.
Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.
my only real problem with RI now is he's still out best 11, so while he's trying to learn a new position we're calling him back out to the wing every few games to sort shit out
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I don’t like Centres who don’t pass. They look like wingers playing centre. Rieko at 11 for me.
I'd probably reframe it as centres who 'can't' pass. He can pass, and often does - in that try buildup he chose not to (you see him look, and hold the ball). That said, he's 24 and learning the position - with 30 test tries under his belt. Remarkable given how long he's been in the environment. I think his passing is a work in progress, but it's getting that knack of finding people in dynamic situations.
I agree, 24 is so young for an international 13. As I remember (Nonu, Tana) every winger who moves infield takes sh*t for a few years because it takes a few years to learn the position?
The fact he's asked to play 13 already tells us that we wants to learn so his attitude is fine.
Definitely prefer ALB as #1 but can see Rieko as a starter at 13 sometime after the next RWC by which time he's 27-28 maybe.
my only real problem with RI now is he's still out best 11, so while he's trying to learn a new position we're calling him back out to the wing every few games to sort shit out
I view it more like for the next few years he should be the AB starting 11 but develop (internationally) via full games at 13 in the "B" team or move there the last 20 minutes. He'll play 13 for the Blues but becoming a top international 13 is a huge step up from Super Rugby.
Nice problem to have as a selector anyway? :winking_face:
btw I actually really like Fozzie selecting a genuine "B" team like this match. Risks the odd loss but encourages player development and competition and people to step up. I wonder if he'd have done that without a new contract tbh.
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
Must have been @jegga, he’s always hanging with ABs.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
Must have been @jegga, he’s always hanging with ABs.
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@mn5 No - it was one of those bastards currently plotting to get the next Ranfurly Shield challenge canned!
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@l_n_p looked like he was still in contact with Reiko, so I guess technically he is held, therefore cant go again.
All very split second stuff, but the margins at this level are small.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p looked like he was still in contact with Reiko, so I guess technically he is held, therefore cant go again.
All very split second stuff, but the margins at this level are small.
Agree after checking out the "Rugby Refs" forum :winking_face: . They had a big discussion on the try Caleb Clark set up last year, Refs consensus (certainly not 100% btw) seemed to be Caleb was tackled, should have released, and the resulting try should not have stood. 3:40 onwards in this video.
My bad, sorry Jaco! :thumbs_up: Rieko is held, knee on the ground, for a moment.
Key point for the refs is to reward a tackler releasing in order to get to his feet to contest OR to allow a contest for the ball (i.e. other opposition players are on their feet and in a position to contest). BOTH seem applicable here as Puma 13 was contesting too.
Still learning ...
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@l_n_p looked like he was still in contact with Reiko, so I guess technically he is held, therefore cant go again.
All very split second stuff, but the margins at this level are small.
Agree after checking out the "Rugby Refs" forum :winking_face: . They had a big discussion on the try Caleb Clark set up last year, Refs consensus (certainly not 100% btw) seemed to be Caleb was tackled, should have released, and the resulting try should not have stood. 3:40 onwards in this video.
My bad, sorry Jaco! :thumbs_up: Rieko is held, knee on the ground, for a moment.
Key point for the refs is to reward a tackler releasing in order to get to his feet to contest OR to allow a contest for the ball (i.e. other opposition players are on their feet and in a position to contest). BOTH seem applicable here as Puma 13 was contesting too.
Still learning ...
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Key point for the refs is to reward a tackler releasing in order to get to his feet to contest OR to allow a contest for the ball (i.e. other opposition players are on their feet and in a position to contest). BOTH seem applicable here as Puma 13 was contesting too.
I couldn't agree more - but they need to err on the side of caution. You go down with a slight hold - assume that your'e tackled. Be really really clear about it. Unfortunately, refs 'sometimes' enforce it randomly, and it's just head scratching. What does 'held' mean anyway these days?
