Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour
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@tim said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Penalty in the air against Welsh 11 was fine.
Please explain
Because in real time and the limited replays it appeared that Adams was in the air and Jordie was on the ground and at the last moment Jordie left the ground and clattered into Adams preventing him from catching the ball.
YC against Jordie for me and the thousands in attendance
@mikethesnow Really both players were looking at the ball and seemed oblivious to each other’s presence. To me should’ve been a drop ball and move on.
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@mikethesnow Really both players were looking at the ball and seemed oblivious to each other’s presence. To me should’ve been a drop ball and move on.
@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow Really both players were looking at the ball and seemed oblivious to each other’s presence. To me should’ve been a drop ball and move on.
In these times of endless camera coverage, extensive officiating and monetary reward for winning, the likelihood of a no fault outcome is, well, unlikely
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@mikethesnow Really both players were looking at the ball and seemed oblivious to each other’s presence. To me should’ve been a drop ball and move on.
@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow Really both players were looking at the ball and seemed oblivious to each other’s presence. To me should’ve been a drop ball and move on.
the ball contest area is a total lottery. SA are playing it really well - hoisting kicks, flooding the area, and getting people up early. If you go early, and get your knee up, you're still very unlikely to get penalised even if you don't have a good chance of catching it.
It's just a mess, and then yuo get situations at the weekend, where people see the same footage differently. It stinks.
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@rotated said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The key to the Barrett knock down to me is the pass itself. It's a loopy infield effort and you can see on the replay Barrett reads it out of the hand and then attacks for the intercept. IMO that pass is loopy enough to be reasonably taken one handed.
He remains comfortably on his feet during the attempt and if taken it was a try. The final try has many similarities to that effort, if he shelled that a penalty or yellow card would have been a joke.
Knock on would be my preference. I understand why it is a penalty in this day and age but I'm struggling to see the cynicism in that play. His read of it out of the hand is evidence to the opposite.
I just have a tough time seeing a yellow card for an attempted intercept above shoulder height in almost any circumstances.
Fuck me mate but you’ve raised a few red herrings there.
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
If he takes the catch (which by the way he was nowhere near doing), he scores is again irrelevant.
I agree no cynicism in the action, but again that is not relevant.
@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
Except they both go to the reasonableness of the interception chance. Slapping a bullet and going off your feet to do it is completely relevant to the chance to catch it - so both the pass and the balance is important to the chance to catch it.
Remember - I thought itw as a clear penalty, edging into borderline YC. But the actions are relevant.
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@toddy said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@tim said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
After reading comments, I would've thought that the AB forwards smashed Wales, but they did not.
Fairly average 40 minutes of rugby against Wales B. Beauden Barrett good, Savea fringe running very good (great tactic against rush defence), Whitelock very good, Papalii good.
ABs very lucky not to concede three cards. Barrett for the knock down, and Blackadder's shoulder charge (tucked his arm, contact shoulder on shoulder). The Welsh player led with his head, and tucked it, but we were lucky there.
Yeah, was wondering at the time if we were going to see a red for Laulala and a yellow for Blackadder. Shit technique from both of them that could have cost us with a different ref.
That was my take on events, possibly two YC because Blackadder’s illegal hit sent Moriarity lower.
So mitigating factor for red.
But first point of contact was shoulder to head, which I’ve seen plenty given straight red.
@mikethesnow I’m not sure that blackadders hit sent him lower but it was no arms so there was a case for yellow card. Your guy needed YC for being a dumb fluffy bunny and ducking his head. He created a situation where injury was probable. Who taught him how to prepare for a tackle?
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@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
Except they both go to the reasonableness of the interception chance. Slapping a bullet and going off your feet to do it is completely relevant to the chance to catch it - so both the pass and the balance is important to the chance to catch it.
Remember - I thought itw as a clear penalty, edging into borderline YC. But the actions are relevant.
@nzzp said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
Except they both go to the reasonableness of the interception chance. Slapping a bullet and going off your feet to do it is completely relevant to the chance to catch it - so both the pass and the balance is important to the chance to catch it.
Remember - I thought itw as a clear penalty, edging into borderline YC. But the actions are relevant.
I get what you mean, and I will say again that I don’t think it was a cynical act from Barret and that he was genuinely going for an interception, but… it was a deliberate act that resulted in a knock on, where there was a clear advantage to be had by Wales. Look at Barrett’s reaction and you can see he was thinking oh fuck am I going to get carded.
No slight on the man, he went for it, it worked out very well twice in the match, but this time I’d didn’t. Close margins.
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@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow Really both players were looking at the ball and seemed oblivious to each other’s presence. To me should’ve been a drop ball and move on.
In these times of endless camera coverage, extensive officiating and monetary reward for winning, the likelihood of a no fault outcome is, well, unlikely
@catogrande they do with handbags at times. Chat with the captain and move on but get your point.
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@mikethesnow Sounds like heaven for a good rugby man!!
You have me very envious!!@dan54 said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow Sounds like heaven for a good rugby man!!
You have me very envious!!Hard to beat, even though we were easy to beat
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@no-quarter said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Without a doubt the ref favoured the ABs. It wasn't a shocking performance, and didn't affect the outcome if the game, but we got the rub of the green over the course of the 80 minutes. That's rugby though, it's impossible for a ref to be perfectly even throughout the game, teams just have to be mentally strong enough to stick to their game and not let decisions that go against them throw them off.
No. The ref gave decisions to the dominating team.
@majorrage said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Without a doubt the ref favoured the ABs. It wasn't a shocking performance, and didn't affect the outcome if the game, but we got the rub of the green over the course of the 80 minutes. That's rugby though, it's impossible for a ref to be perfectly even throughout the game, teams just have to be mentally strong enough to stick to their game and not let decisions that go against them throw them off.
No. The ref gave decisions to the dominating team.
That's not how it always works though. The ABs have been the dominant team and been on the wrong end of the ref plenty of times. The best AB teams (like McCaw post 07) didn't let it phase them, other AB teams have let their frustrations get the better of them and ended up losing games they should have won.
Reading that article posted earlier, the Welsh appeared to lack the leadership on the field needed to keep their heads when calls went against them. It's all about the top 2 inches, and if they were visibility showing their frustration then it seems clear they were not focusing on executing their game plan as well as they should.
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@rotated said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The key to the Barrett knock down to me is the pass itself. It's a loopy infield effort and you can see on the replay Barrett reads it out of the hand and then attacks for the intercept. IMO that pass is loopy enough to be reasonably taken one handed.
He remains comfortably on his feet during the attempt and if taken it was a try. The final try has many similarities to that effort, if he shelled that a penalty or yellow card would have been a joke.
Knock on would be my preference. I understand why it is a penalty in this day and age but I'm struggling to see the cynicism in that play. His read of it out of the hand is evidence to the opposite.
I just have a tough time seeing a yellow card for an attempted intercept above shoulder height in almost any circumstances.
Fuck me mate but you’ve raised a few red herrings there.
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
If he takes the catch (which by the way he was nowhere near doing), he scores is again irrelevant.
I agree no cynicism in the action, but again that is not relevant.
@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@rotated said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The key to the Barrett knock down to me is the pass itself. It's a loopy infield effort and you can see on the replay Barrett reads it out of the hand and then attacks for the intercept. IMO that pass is loopy enough to be reasonably taken one handed.
He remains comfortably on his feet during the attempt and if taken it was a try. The final try has many similarities to that effort, if he shelled that a penalty or yellow card would have been a joke.
Knock on would be my preference. I understand why it is a penalty in this day and age but I'm struggling to see the cynicism in that play. His read of it out of the hand is evidence to the opposite.
I just have a tough time seeing a yellow card for an attempted intercept above shoulder height in almost any circumstances.
Fuck me mate but you’ve raised a few red herrings there.
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
If he takes the catch (which by the way he was nowhere near doing), he scores is again irrelevant.
I agree no cynicism in the action, but again that is not relevant.
Re you last line there Cato, I'd have thought that was the most relevant?
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Worst decision by far for me was the penalty against the welsh bloke for trying to catch the ball in the air and banging into Jordie. That's the sort of decision that makes a mockery of the game.
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@voodoo Maybe this image will help - just because you're trying to catch the ball doesn't mean you can't be penalised for getting it horribly wrong.
@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo Maybe this image will help - just because you're trying to catch the ball doesn't mean you can't be penalised for getting it horribly wrong.
That doesn't change a thing for me! If anything it shows that he got up before and higher than Jordie. What are you seeing in that?
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@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo Maybe this image will help - just because you're trying to catch the ball doesn't mean you can't be penalised for getting it horribly wrong.
That doesn't change a thing for me! If anything it shows that he got up before and higher than Jordie. What are you seeing in that?
@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the players.
A video would have been more useful than a photo to be fair
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@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the players.
A video would have been more useful than a photo to be fair
@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the player
You have sharper eyes than me if you can deduce all that from the picture. In real time, with replays, all I saw was 2 blokes in a contest, both going for the ball. One maybe slightly early, the other looked slightly late to me.
The sort of thing that can and should happen multiple times in a game without the need for endless reviews and a sanction.
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Here are a few thoughts after a rewatch :
- TJP was not as bad as most ferners wrote. He was an important part of the ABs defensive pattern and harassed his opponents with efficiency. Most of the time, his passing was correct, but not mercurial.
- BB (with the notable exception of an unnecessary high kick after a dazzling run by Jordan) was very good. His delayed pass for ALB's try was a pure beauty.
- Taukeiaho is a beast. He is always making the hard yards and his support play is outstanding.
- Despite his captaincy, Sam Cane will find it difficult to regain his place as Dalton Papali'i had a hell of a match. No missed tackles, strong carries, one important turnover, one good taken try : he is now one of the best opensiders in the world.
- What is Savea's best position : 7 or 8 ? He was abrasive against Wales.
- Lomax has learned to prop. He did well when he came in as far as scrums are concerned.
- Vaai'i is a future great. We need to see him doing the dark jobs, however.
- ALB + Rieko Ioane worked well as a combo during the last 25 minutes. I would tend to think that ALB is the best centre when the ABs are on defense while Rieko is the best attacker in offensive situations. ALB was a pain in the neck for the Welsh when they were trying to throw the ball wide.
- By the way, thanks a lot to the two NZers in red jerseys for their try assists.
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Here are a few thoughts after a rewatch :
- TJP was not as bad as most ferners wrote. He was an important part of the ABs defensive pattern and harassed his opponents with efficiency. Most of the time, his passing was correct, but not mercurial.
- BB (with the notable exception of an unnecessary high kick after a dazzling run by Jordan) was very good. His delayed pass for ALB's try was a pure beauty.
- Taukeiaho is a beast. He is always making the hard yards and his support play is outstanding.
- Despite his captaincy, Sam Cane will find it difficult to regain his place as Dalton Papali'i had a hell of a match. No missed tackles, strong carries, one important turnover, one good taken try : he is now one of the best opensiders in the world.
- What is Savea's best position : 7 or 8 ? He was abrasive against Wales.
- Lomax has learned to prop. He did well when he came in as far as scrums are concerned.
- Vaai'i is a future great. We need to see him doing the dark jobs, however.
- ALB + Rieko Ioane worked well as a combo during the last 25 minutes. I would tend to think that ALB is the best centre when the ABs are on defense while Rieko is the best attacker in offensive situations. ALB was a pain in the neck for the Welsh when they were trying to throw the ball wide.
- By the way, thanks a lot to the two NZers in red jerseys for their try assists.
@cgrant said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Here are a few thoughts after a rewatch :
- TJP was not as bad as most ferners wrote. He was an important part of the ABs defensive pattern and harassed his opponents with efficiency. Most of the time, his passing was correct, but not mercurial.
- BB (with the notable exception of an unnecessary high kick after a dazzling run by Jordan) was very good. His delayed pass for ALB's try was a pure beauty.
- Taukeiaho is a beast. He is always making the hard yards and his support play is outstanding.
- Despite his captaincy, Sam Cane will find it difficult to regain his place as Dalton Papali'i had a hell of a match. No missed tackles, strong carries, one important turnover, one good taken try : he is now one of the best opensiders in the world.
- What is Savea's best position : 7 or 8 ? He was abrasive against Wales.
- Lomax has learned to prop. He did well when he came in as far as scrums are concerned.
- Vaai'i is a future great. We need to see him doing the dark jobs, however.
- ALB + Rieko Ioane worked well as a combo during the last 25 minutes. I would tend to think that ALB is the best centre when the ABs are on defense while Rieko is the best attacker in offensive situations. ALB was a pain in the neck for the Welsh when they were trying to throw the ball wide.
- By the way, thanks a lot to the two NZers in red jerseys for their try assists
Genius long term planning by NZR
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@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the player
You have sharper eyes than me if you can deduce all that from the picture. In real time, with replays, all I saw was 2 blokes in a contest, both going for the ball. One maybe slightly early, the other looked slightly late to me.
The sort of thing that can and should happen multiple times in a game without the need for endless reviews and a sanction.
@voodoo The video did show it clearer - I don't think it should have gone to the TMO, referee should have called it or not called it as there was no suggestion of foul play but they seem to get nervous when a player gets hurt.
And I expect Jordie was timing it perfectly given how good he is at the skill and how much easier it is to judge when running onto the ball. Penalty because he was denied the opportunity of competing for the ball.
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@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the players.
A video would have been more useful than a photo to be fair
@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the players.
A video would have been more useful than a photo to be fair
Bunkum, it doesn't show anything of the sort. Can't tell anything about what happened just from that picture
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@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the players.
A video would have been more useful than a photo to be fair
Bunkum, it doesn't show anything of the sort. Can't tell anything about what happened just from that picture
@gibbonrib said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@kiwipie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo It shows that he was too early and in the wrong place and Jordie was on time and heading for the right place. If Adams was ever going to catch the ball, then the ball had to be involved with the collision of the players.
A video would have been more useful than a photo to be fair
Bunkum, it doesn't show anything of the sort. Can't tell anything about what happened just from that picture
Good use of the word bunkum. As I said, the video was pretty clear hence why the referee gave a penalty - which was of course my point rather than that the image was a slam dunk
