Super Rugby News
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I think he's in deep shitski here. NZRU had an annus horribilus last year from a PR point of view - I can't see any other outcome outside of completely throwing the book at, and making an example of, him.
Whether that is just or not, not for me to say.
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I think he's in deep shitski here. NZRU had an annus horribilus last year from a PR point of view - I can't see any other outcome outside of completely throwing the book at, and making an example of, him.
Whether that is just or not, not for me to say.
@MajorRage said in Super Rugby News:
I think he's in deep shitski here. NZRU had an annus horribilus last year from a PR point of view - I can't see any other outcome outside of completely throwing the book at, and making an example of, him.
Whether that is just or not, not for me to say.
Because the breach of the anti-doping rule (if the B-sample is also positive) happened either during the Rugby Championship or the EOYT, the ruling will not be NZR's to make, but either SANZAAR's or World Rugby's. As I posted earlier, there are set penalties for this kind of violations and there are reductions that apply in case the player can establish lack of intent/knowledge/recklessness etc. What I understand from the little real information that has been published by the media, that's what PT is now working on (at the same time awaiting for that B-sample).
It's also normal practice to take into account a player's record, which - I think - is pretty clean in PT's case (especially relating to doping).
All will also depend on the additional anti-doping rules from SANZAAR/WR.
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@MajorRage said in Super Rugby News:
I think he's in deep shitski here. NZRU had an annus horribilus last year from a PR point of view - I can't see any other outcome outside of completely throwing the book at, and making an example of, him.
Whether that is just or not, not for me to say.
Because the breach of the anti-doping rule (if the B-sample is also positive) happened either during the Rugby Championship or the EOYT, the ruling will not be NZR's to make, but either SANZAAR's or World Rugby's. As I posted earlier, there are set penalties for this kind of violations and there are reductions that apply in case the player can establish lack of intent/knowledge/recklessness etc. What I understand from the little real information that has been published by the media, that's what PT is now working on (at the same time awaiting for that B-sample).
It's also normal practice to take into account a player's record, which - I think - is pretty clean in PT's case (especially relating to doping).
All will also depend on the additional anti-doping rules from SANZAAR/WR.
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
What I understand from the little real information that has been published by the media, that's what PT is now working on (at the same time awaiting for that B-sample).It's also normal practice to take into account a player's record, which - I think - is pretty clean in PT's case (especially relating to doping).
The B-Sample is only tested at the athletes request. So far PT hasn't requested that going by reports.
If he is completely befuddled and has no idea how this substance was found the first course of action would be to demand the B Sample is tested as it could have been a false positive (has happened plenty in other sports).
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If the personal reasons are that his mum gave it to him then I'm fine with it.
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If the personal reasons are that his mum gave it to him then I'm fine with it.
@No-Quarter said in Super Rugby News:
If the personal reasons are that his mum gave it to him then I'm fine with it.
He's not going to look skinny though, is he
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Ben Smith re-signs with NZR and the Highlanders until 2020.
https://www.facebook.com/bensmithotago/videos/396514227349995/
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NZR media release about Ben Smith:
http://www.allblacks.com/News/30328/it-s-new-zealand-rugby-for-ben-smith
New Zealand Rugby has also confirmed that as part of the long-term deal, Smith also has an option of an extended non-playing break from the game in order to manage his workload and an early termination option post Rugby World Cup 2019. -
Who is that guy in the brown suit? Seen him on a few things related to the clan, but never known who he is.
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Great to hear that Bender has re-signed. The reported options in the contract look attractive to a front line AB at this stage of his career.
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either i missed it, our you guys are ignoring the best story of the off-season so far. Dipshit returning Red Scott Higgenbotham has been charged after it appears he drunkenly tried to break his mate out of jail for taking a piss in public.
One count of assaulting police, and one count of being unlawfully being on police property or some shit.
He's been told to stay home from training. While i don't expect anything to come of it, it's pretty fucking funny.
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either i missed it, our you guys are ignoring the best story of the off-season so far. Dipshit returning Red Scott Higgenbotham has been charged after it appears he drunkenly tried to break his mate out of jail for taking a piss in public.
One count of assaulting police, and one count of being unlawfully being on police property or some shit.
He's been told to stay home from training. While i don't expect anything to come of it, it's pretty fucking funny.
@mariner4life Ahahahaha What a muppet. I'd have used the taser about 50 times for my own amusement.
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either i missed it, our you guys are ignoring the best story of the off-season so far. Dipshit returning Red Scott Higgenbotham has been charged after it appears he drunkenly tried to break his mate out of jail for taking a piss in public.
One count of assaulting police, and one count of being unlawfully being on police property or some shit.
He's been told to stay home from training. While i don't expect anything to come of it, it's pretty fucking funny.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby News:
either i missed it, our you guys are ignoring the best story of the off-season so far. Dipshit returning Red Scott Higgenbotham has been charged after it appears he drunkenly tried to break his mate out of jail for taking a piss in public.
One count of assaulting police, and one count of being unlawfully being on police property or some shit.
He's been told to stay home from training. While i don't expect anything to come of it, it's pretty fucking funny.
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Very disappointing really. I'd expect any frontline AB to know Israel Dagg scored the first try at WC 2011.
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@MajorRage said in Super Rugby News:
Who is that guy in the brown suit? Seen him on a few things related to the clan, but never known who he is.
Sam Casey. I'll leave my opinions about him to myself...
@Smudge said in Super Rugby News:
@MajorRage said in Super Rugby News:
Who is that guy in the brown suit? Seen him on a few things related to the clan, but never known who he is.
Sam Casey. I'll leave my opinions about him to myself...
Cheers ... although it still sort of leaves the question unanswered. Who is he? Just a fan, or does he have another actual role there?
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Drug Free Sport representative apparently on radio (second hand) saying Patrick T is either out for 4 years if drug taken deliberately, or 2 years if inadvertent.
I can't validate as I didn't hear it, but if that's on the radio, then it sounds legit.
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If it's from inadvertently taking something banned then that would be a pretty devastating blow to the big man. Yeah you can say he should be more careful, but having his professional sporting career ruined by a genuine mistake would be tough to take.
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Thanks for that link and info @nzzp.
Because of all the (mis)information in the (social) media, I think it's good to highlight a few more of these WADA rules (I'm sorry if this repeats parts of NZZP's post):
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The media release from NZR says this is a case of specified substance.
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That rules out that anabolic agents and hormones and those stimulants and hormone antagonists and modulators so identified on the prohibited list were found in his sample.(rule 4.2.2).
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Specified substances are substances which are more likely to have been consumed by an athlete for a purpose other than the enhancement of sport performance.(footnote to rule 4.2.2)
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Intent, fault, negligence or knowledge of use on the athlete’s part don't have to be demonstrated in order to establish an anti-doping rule violation for use of a prohibited substance (rule 2.2.1). It is, however, relevant for the sanction!
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Ineligibility (read: ineligibility to play) for the use of a prohibited substance in case of a specified substance is four years if the anti-doping rule violation has been established to be intentional. This sanction is subject to a potential reduction or suspension. (Rule 10.2.1.2)
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If the violation was not intentional, the period of ineligibility shall be two years. (Rule 10.2.2)
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In case "no fault or negligence" can be established by the athlete, (s)he will not be ineligible. (Rule 10.4)
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If an athlete can establish "no significant fault or negligence" in case of an anti-doping violation involving a specified substance, the period of ineligibility shall be - at a minimum - be a reprimand and no period of ineligibility, and - at a maximum - two years of ineligibility. This depends on the degree of fault of the athlete. (Rule 10.5.1.1)
(The same applies in case of contaminated products, rule 10.5.1.2) -
A period of provisional suspension will be deducted from the ineligibility period that is eventually imposed. (Rule 10.11.3.1)
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A mandatory part of each sanction shall include automatic publication, as provided in Article 14.3. (Rule 10.13)
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Teams will only be penalised for anti-doping rule violations if more than two members of a team have been found to have committed such a violation during an "event period". (Rule 11.2)
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The identity of any Athlete or other Person who is asserted by an Anti-Doping Organization to have committed an anti-doping rule violation, may be Publicly Disclosed by the Anti-Doping Organization with results management responsibility only after notice has been provided to the Athlete ... (Rule 14.3.1)
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No later than twenty days after it has been determined in a final appellate decision under Article 13.2.1 or 13.2.2, or such appeal has been waived, or a hearing in accordance with Article 8 has been waived, or the assertion of an anti-doping rule violation has not otherwise been timely challenged ..., the Anti-Doping Organization responsible for results management must publicly report the disposition of the anti-doping matter including the sport, the anti-doping rule violated, the name of the Athlete ..., the Prohibited Substance ... and the Consequences imposed. (Rule 14.3.2)
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In any case where it is determined, after a hearing or appeal, that the Athlete or other Person did not commit an anti-doping rule violation, the decision may be Publicly Disclosed only with the consent of the Athlete or other Person who is the subject of the decision. (Rule 14.3.3)
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No Anti-Doping Organization or WADA -accredited laboratory, or official of either, shall publicly comment on the specific facts of any pending case (as opposed to general description of process and science) except in response to public comments attributed to the Athlete, other Person or their representatives.(Rule 14.3.5)
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The mandatory Public Reporting required in 14.3.2 shall not be required where the Athlete or other Person who has been found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation is a Minor. (Rule 14.3.6)
This last rule is about a minor, that is, a young person under the age of majority. This has nothing to do with a anti-doping rule violation being minor.
It might be interesting to also consult the World Rugby rules against doping, but I've other things to.
What that Drugfree Sport NZ rep (apparently) said is confirming what I wrote about the WADA Rules (I didn't hear the interview). Regarding the length of a possible ban, see the first 9 bullets of my summary of those rules that I posted earlier. Particularly, pay attention to what it says about the type of substance detected, and intent/fault/negilgence/knowledge :
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
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The media release from NZR says this is a case of specified substance.
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That rules out that anabolic agents and hormones and those stimulants and hormone antagonists and modulators so identified on the prohibited list were found in his sample.(rule 4.2.2).
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Specified substances are substances which are more likely to have been consumed by an athlete for a purpose other than the enhancement of sport performance.(footnote to rule 4.2.2)
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Intent, fault, negligence or knowledge of use on the athlete’s part don't have to be demonstrated in order to establish an anti-doping rule violation for use of a prohibited substance (rule 2.2.1). It is, however, relevant for the sanction!
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Ineligibility (read: ineligibility to play) for the use of a prohibited substance in case of a specified substance is four years if the anti-doping rule violation has been established to be intentional. This sanction is subject to a potential reduction or suspension. (Rule 10.2.1.2)
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If the violation was not intentional, the period of ineligibility shall be two years. (Rule 10.2.2)
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In case "no fault or negligence" can be established by the athlete, (s)he will not be ineligible. (Rule 10.4)
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If an athlete can establish "no significant fault or negligence" in case of an anti-doping violation involving a specified substance, the period of ineligibility shall be - at a minimum - be a reprimand and no period of ineligibility, and - at a maximum - two years of ineligibility. This depends on the degree of fault of the athlete. (Rule 10.5.1.1)
(The same applies in case of contaminated products, rule 10.5.1.2) -
A period of provisional suspension will be deducted from the ineligibility period that is eventually imposed. (Rule 10.11.3.1)
Obviously, if the substance is not a specified substance but a sports performance enhancing substance (anabolic agent, hormone, stimulant etc), the sanction will be more severe and a ban will be longer.
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