All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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This site has some deep stats for the game, and others up north.
@machpants Irish missed more tackles than us, despite us having to make twice as many.
TBH I think plenty of those stats are not surprising, when you look at some of our matches over the years, but we kicked away twice as much and passed half as much, Rucks won - Ireland 132, NZ 57
We had twice as many linebreaks and more off loads, yet alot was ineffective.
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Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."@Stargazer
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-how-all-blacks-plan-to-bounce-back-after-ireland-review/6MYCMX4AF5BWIOWATI354M2A6M/?c_id=80&objectid=12486165&ref=rss -
@machpants Irish missed more tackles than us, despite us having to make twice as many.
TBH I think plenty of those stats are not surprising, when you look at some of our matches over the years, but we kicked away twice as much and passed half as much, Rucks won - Ireland 132, NZ 57
We had twice as many linebreaks and more off loads, yet alot was ineffective.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants Irish missed more tackles than us, despite us having to make twice as many.
TBH I think plenty of those stats are not surprising, when you look at some of our matches over the years, but we kicked away twice as much and passed half as much, Rucks won - Ireland 132, NZ 57
We had twice as many linebreaks and more off loads, yet alot was ineffective.
I guess we generally do more with less ball. Sometimes I'd like to see us grind down an opposition
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Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."@Stargazer
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-how-all-blacks-plan-to-bounce-back-after-ireland-review/6MYCMX4AF5BWIOWATI354M2A6M/?c_id=80&objectid=12486165&ref=rss@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."@Stargazer
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-how-all-blacks-plan-to-bounce-back-after-ireland-review/6MYCMX4AF5BWIOWATI354M2A6M/?c_id=80&objectid=12486165&ref=rssI suppose he can’t say much else if they have just come out of a review with the coache’s.They must have lead the way with that stuff in the review and the players have to come out and back it up.
Really he might want to have said the game plan and the coaching staff are shit can we please dump them. As I am sick of listening to their BS.
But that’s not good for the pay packet. -
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
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well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
@mariner4life when you look at the stats form the article above, which many I dont think vary greatly form previous years good wins, so a couple more chances taken, an ounce of luck and result could have been very different, so I guess there is that glimmer....
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those repeated goal line stands were heroic and almost game saving.
Severely taxing though.
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@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
@chester-draws TBF, IIRC we had 25 tests in a row where we didnt start the same mid-field combo in consecutive games before Nonu-Smith became the encumbants (Mauger, McAlister, Nonu, Smith and were a couple others I think)
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
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well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
The counterpoint is we've heard this tune before.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
The counterpoint is we've heard this tune before.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
The counterpoint is we've heard this tune before.
look, agreed. i wasn't really excusing them.
If they really came out of that review feeling good then we are proper fucked.
Yes, proper fucked
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well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
devils advocate
of course we weren't. But the game isn't about being in control, ultimately the game is about scoring more points than the opposition
Perhaps these dudes know the limitations we have, pick a bunch of guys who will keep the score close by tackling and scrambling like dervishes, and then ruthlessly exploit the 3 or 4 opportunities we are given.
I'm not saying it's a great plan. And it's not one I'm a fan of. But, it is a plan, and, if i think about our players, it's not a stupid idea.
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Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."@Stargazer
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-how-all-blacks-plan-to-bounce-back-after-ireland-review/6MYCMX4AF5BWIOWATI354M2A6M/?c_id=80&objectid=12486165&ref=rss@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."@Stargazer
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-how-all-blacks-plan-to-bounce-back-after-ireland-review/6MYCMX4AF5BWIOWATI354M2A6M/?c_id=80&objectid=12486165&ref=rssLiving in their own little world certainly makes sense when you consider the Frizzell selection.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
devils advocate
of course we weren't. But the game isn't about being in control, ultimately the game is about scoring more points than the opposition
Perhaps these dudes know the limitations we have, pick a bunch of guys who will keep the score close by tackling and scrambling like dervishes, and then ruthlessly exploit the 3 or 4 opportunities we are given.
I'm not saying it's a great plan. And it's not one I'm a fan of. But, it is a plan, and, if i think about our players, it's not a stupid idea.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
devils advocate
of course we weren't. But the game isn't about being in control, ultimately the game is about scoring more points than the opposition
Perhaps these dudes know the limitations we have, pick a bunch of guys who will keep the score close by tackling and scrambling like dervishes, and then ruthlessly exploit the 3 or 4 opportunities we are given.
I'm not saying it's a great plan. And it's not one I'm a fan of. But, it is a plan, and, if i think about our players, it's not a stupid idea.
I know youre playing devils advocate, but in context it isnt one, loss, we still lost to Arge, SA, Aus and Ireland in close to a year.
I am going to suggest the game plan hasnt changed for over a decade, it feels like it was built around the GOAT (which I can understand), however I cant remember us dominating turnovers or retaining ball to consistently to give us enough opportunites consistently to win against the top teams, since we were doing it with Ritchie around.
So is 3 or 4 enough? Sometimes it is I guess and we have results to prove it, however I supect a lot now think it isnt good enough any longer.
I am going to go to suggest we do have the cattle, even the ones that leave show that playing us. We have a few things to fix which have already been mentioned but the inferior version of Hansen ball just makes it worse.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
devils advocate
of course we weren't. But the game isn't about being in control, ultimately the game is about scoring more points than the opposition
Perhaps these dudes know the limitations we have, pick a bunch of guys who will keep the score close by tackling and scrambling like dervishes, and then ruthlessly exploit the 3 or 4 opportunities we are given.
I'm not saying it's a great plan. And it's not one I'm a fan of. But, it is a plan, and, if i think about our players, it's not a stupid idea.
I know youre playing devils advocate, but in context it isnt one, loss, we still lost to Arge, SA, Aus and Ireland in close to a year.
I am going to suggest the game plan hasnt changed for over a decade, it feels like it was built around the GOAT (which I can understand), however I cant remember us dominating turnovers or retaining ball to consistently to give us enough opportunites consistently to win against the top teams, since we were doing it with Ritchie around.
So is 3 or 4 enough? Sometimes it is I guess and we have results to prove it, however I supect a lot now think it isnt good enough any longer.
I am going to go to suggest we do have the cattle, even the ones that leave show that playing us. We have a few things to fix which have already been mentioned but the inferior version of Hansen ball just makes it worse.
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
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@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
@duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
yep, i've said the same thing a bunch since Sunday. The reason the irish had so much ball is we never gave ourselves a chance to get it back
We also don't have a guy who is really good on teh ground.
