All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants Irish missed more tackles than us, despite us having to make twice as many.
TBH I think plenty of those stats are not surprising, when you look at some of our matches over the years, but we kicked away twice as much and passed half as much, Rucks won - Ireland 132, NZ 57
We had twice as many linebreaks and more off loads, yet alot was ineffective.
I guess we generally do more with less ball. Sometimes I'd like to see us grind down an opposition
Do we have the cattle for that?
Oz showed a team could spank Boks without grinding them down.
Against Poms and Boks, and maybe Paddies/Frogs I think we need to achieve broad parity in set piece (which we have been) and 40% plus in breakdown.
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.
Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.
Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.
Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
I disagree. I think the ABs are still fitter in the forwards on the whole than most forward packs. Even the Irish were blowing hard after 65 mins on Saturday after putting in the effort they had, but only were up by 3.
I've only ever seen the Boks put in a backs to the wall defensive performance like that in the last 20 years, and that was several times against the ABs. I recall them winning in 2005 on the back of such a performance when the ABs did everything but score in Cape Town. Did they care? Nope. They won a world cup 2 years later.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.
Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
Dunno, we still seemed at pace in the forwards in the last 20. And given we were basically losing the tackle count 4-1, that would suggest we are fitter.
In my view, we won't get any sort of dominance again as long as they're are 23 man teams. Other countries are simply much stronger at building the physical attributes to play 40-45 mins of rugby. It's only when you have to play 80 that our historical (last 25 years) strengths come into play.
England, South Africa, Ireland will continue to flourish in my view.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
Dunno, we still seemed at pace in the forwards in the last 20. And given we were basically losing the tackle count 4-1, that would suggest we are fitter.
In my view, we won't get any sort of dominance again as long as they're are 23 man teams. Other countries are simply much stronger at building the physical attributes to play 40-45 mins of rugby. It's only when you have to play 80 that our historical (last 25 years) strengths come into play.
England, South Africa, Ireland will continue to flourish in my view.
@majorrage said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
Dunno, we still seemed at pace in the forwards in the last 20. And given we were basically losing the tackle count 4-1, that would suggest we are fitter.
In my view, we won't get any sort of dominance again as long as they're are 23 man teams. Other countries are simply much stronger at building the physical attributes to play 40-45 mins of rugby. It's only when you have to play 80 that our historical (last 25 years) strengths come into play.
England, South Africa, Ireland will continue to flourish in my view.
Agree. The effect is lessened further by being able to have long breathers at scrums, endless water boys at every stoppage and TMO 'chats'
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
We select athletic locks, on the basis that around the sixty the wheels will fall off oppo fatties. Recent issue has been time wasting and, more poignant, long TMO delays, which have meant their fatties aren't getting worn down as quickly.
I think this is a bit of a myth. nowadays.
I don't think the AB's are fitter than the opposition nowadays. Our guys were blowing really hard even in the first half. You could predict at that stage that we were not going to have a miracle Q4 as the "valiant Irish" ran out of steam as they have historically done.
Plus our bench used to be a real weapon. They were not much inferior to the run on 15 and so were really able to put a tiring opposition to the sword. This also is no longer true. Our bench is inferior to SA's for example and there isn't the same seamless continuity when changes are made. This in turn leads to a reluctance to make necessary changes or alternatively Hail Mary substitutes.
We used to believe that if we had 35% possession we could score breakout try's from the inevitable turnovers. Cept now we don't win the turnovers and the opposition are far more clinical and so don't give us the options of "easy" long range scores.
Instead we have a backline that still plays as if it's a Maserati instead of a Holden with a couple of pistons missing. So pretty much every time we get possession we end up conceding 10 metres and / or the ball.Smith if he plays and is on form will go a long way to masking these issues but it won't address them - and he's 33 on Sunday!
Dunno, we still seemed at pace in the forwards in the last 20. And given we were basically losing the tackle count 4-1, that would suggest we are fitter.
In my view, we won't get any sort of dominance again as long as they're are 23 man teams. Other countries are simply much stronger at building the physical attributes to play 40-45 mins of rugby. It's only when you have to play 80 that our historical (last 25 years) strengths come into play.
England, South Africa, Ireland will continue to flourish in my view.
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones. I would rather watch Nrl than see the AB's and Super teams change style as so many ferners demand. It is not in our nature in my view... But I am way too much of a tradionalist I suppose.
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@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones. I would rather watch Nrl than see the AB's and Super teams change style as so many ferners demand. It is not in our nature in my view... But I am way too much of a tradionalist I suppose.
@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
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@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
there still are
We've had wins playing one way
Aus beat SA playing their way
SA beat us using their way
Ireland beat us playing another way againStill more than one way to be succesful, as long as you nail your basics. As it should be
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
there still are
We've had wins playing one way
Aus beat SA playing their way
SA beat us using their way
Ireland beat us playing another way againStill more than one way to be succesful, as long as you nail your basics. As it should be
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
there still are
Yep, but I would argue less than previously. In particular, playing fast is getting smoked by TMO and injury stoppages slowing the game down -- which is affecting the 2003 AB game plan somewhat. So maybe I"m just pissy about that?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
there still are
Yep, but I would argue less than previously. In particular, playing fast is getting smoked by TMO and injury stoppages slowing the game down -- which is affecting the 2003 AB game plan somewhat. So maybe I"m just pissy about that?
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Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Moody, for his part, challenged a question about the forwards’ performance in Dublin.
"What specifically are you getting it, in regards to the pack?'' a scratchy Moody responded.
He went on to defend their efforts, when measured against the physicality of the impressive Irish forwards, who thrived on the glut of possession and were tidy with their ball control.
"Yeah, it was definitely a tough night at the office, and it was a physical game,’’ Moody stated. “But at the same time, when you are talking about the pack - as a pack we didn't take any backward steps or anything like that.
"I don't think speaking of the pack, specifically, is that where we let the game go.''
I must've been mistaken that they got monstered in the collisions
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
Bu that was when everything was player-led. So everything was done in spite of Foster. Achievements can't be claimed by him.
Perhaps a lot of the problems are with the players and taking ownership and may have been there for a while. Thought that was improving towards the middle of the RC but the headless-chicken syndrome may have crept back in.
I think when the Abs play at breakneck speed and passes stick, nobody is living with them. Savea's try against Boks in 2nd RC test is an example of this. The problem seems to be that they want to play at this speed ALL the time, rather than choosing when to raise the tempo to catch the opposition unawares.
This.
I've just watched the last 5 minutes of the 2013 Ireland game when we won in the dying minutes. The contrast in managing the pace of the game to eliminate errors compared to Saturday is there to see - along with the body-language, player communication and decision-making. Cool heads and on-field management more than just raw talent.
PS: Check out Nonu calmly waiting for a bobbling ball to come to him rather than snatching it, running a perfect angle to take out 3 Irish defenders and then recycling the ball quickly. Object lesson in Rugby smarts.
Richie McCaw had high standards. It rubbed off on everyone around him. No one wanted to let him down. I wonder if he shouldn't be invited to be part of AB coaching set up next season.
@sparky said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
Bu that was when everything was player-led. So everything was done in spite of Foster. Achievements can't be claimed by him.
Perhaps a lot of the problems are with the players and taking ownership and may have been there for a while. Thought that was improving towards the middle of the RC but the headless-chicken syndrome may have crept back in.
I think when the Abs play at breakneck speed and passes stick, nobody is living with them. Savea's try against Boks in 2nd RC test is an example of this. The problem seems to be that they want to play at this speed ALL the time, rather than choosing when to raise the tempo to catch the opposition unawares.
This.
I've just watched the last 5 minutes of the 2013 Ireland game when we won in the dying minutes. The contrast in managing the pace of the game to eliminate errors compared to Saturday is there to see - along with the body-language, player communication and decision-making. Cool heads and on-field management more than just raw talent.
PS: Check out Nonu calmly waiting for a bobbling ball to come to him rather than snatching it, running a perfect angle to take out 3 Irish defenders and then recycling the ball quickly. Object lesson in Rugby smarts.
Richie McCaw had high standards. It rubbed off on everyone around him. No one wanted to let him down. I wonder if he shouldn't be invited to be part of AB coaching set up next season.
Look how relentless that was and obviously the skill set was way higher than Saturday’s efforts. How many times did our 12 and 13 feature in that passage. And even more Nigel was glad for a rest at the end
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage so should NZ try to mirror their approach to the game or instead try to grow support and interest in NZ rugby by finding ways to give the continuity and flair game a good shot of winning the big ones.
One of the things I used to like about rugby was there was more than one way to win. Grinding, negative, attritional rugby wasn't pretty - but you had to cope with it to be successful. Throwing the ball around and trying to run the opponent off their feet is brave, but if that was your strength, go for it.
We lose that if everyone converges on a particular style.
there still are
Yep, but I would argue less than previously. In particular, playing fast is getting smoked by TMO and injury stoppages slowing the game down -- which is affecting the 2003 AB game plan somewhat. So maybe I"m just pissy about that?
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
which is affecting the 2003 AB game plan somewhat
2003 plan needs updating
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Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Moody, for his part, challenged a question about the forwards’ performance in Dublin.
"What specifically are you getting it, in regards to the pack?'' a scratchy Moody responded.
He went on to defend their efforts, when measured against the physicality of the impressive Irish forwards, who thrived on the glut of possession and were tidy with their ball control.
"Yeah, it was definitely a tough night at the office, and it was a physical game,’’ Moody stated. “But at the same time, when you are talking about the pack - as a pack we didn't take any backward steps or anything like that.
"I don't think speaking of the pack, specifically, is that where we let the game go.''
I must've been mistaken that they got monstered in the collisions
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Jesus, not much of a reaction to a forward pack that got dominated at the collision. They may not have taken a backward step, but one pack went forward al lnight and it sure as shit wasn't us.
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@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Jesus, not much of a reaction to a forward pack that got dominated at the collision. They may not have taken a backward step, but one pack went forward al lnight and it sure as shit wasn't us.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Jesus, not much of a reaction to a forward pack that got dominated at the collision. They may not have taken a backward step, but one pack went forward al lnight and it sure as shit wasn't us.
but the internal debriefing meeting was great
..because it wasnt the forwards problem
..what a sh*t show
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Righto, the depressing watch continues. 2nd half starts with an aimless kicking comp, and ends with Dalton harshly penalised at the ruck. Ireland attack with reasonable fluidity and our defence is on the back foot, we look tired. Their (small) hooker crashes over our well set defensive line because we don't get up fast/aggressively/low enough. Poor effort at the end mostly from Laulala and Savea, but the defence throughout that movement was too passive, giving them easy metres and momentum. Tired?
Finally we get some decent ball, and we kick it away (Mounga). They give us another crack and Jordan knocks it on but we get the scrum? so get a third go. Our scrum dominates but no penalty awarded, we go wide and Rieko throws it away miles behind Jordie after managing to collect a shitty pass himself. Almost like he wanted to make sure of the error this time.
Back in our 22, so obviously now is the time to run it rather than kicking it away. We fuck it up, Reece with a shit pass to Moody, but what the fuck were we doing fucking around with it there anyway? Ref misses the knock on, so TJ makes a shitty short clearance and Ireland get another attacking lineout and score as Taylor just straight up misses a tackle.
Jordie wins the kick off (been good in the air) and we get a running chance. TJ kills the momentum with ruck dithering, then passes behind Laulala who drops it and now we're back on our line as the Irish 9 kicks well. Somehow we turn it over, then obviously miss touch on the clearance by Havili. Then Havili offside, 3 more points down.
Oh and we brought some subs on. Bit late given how poked Laulala in particular looked and the mistakes he was making.
We get good ball in their half off the kick-off return after Jordie does more good aerial work, which TJ immediately kicks away - not a bad attacking kick for Reece out of context, but in context holding onto the fucking ball might be a nice change. The Irish exit cleanly into touch near halfway as you'd expect professional footy players to do.
We attack with a nice little lineout move, then some poor reffing sees Havili stripped off the ball by the tackler with his knees already on the ground.
Bit of kicking then we lose a lineout due to a shit Coles throw. Back in our own half yet again, but Jordan breaks out and scores a good try. Good from Rieko too there.
Forwards fuck up the kick off reception, Ireland get a penalty for something or other? and kick it.
We get some attacking ball, try to kick it away but Jordan regathers and Akira scores. Irish repeated cynical stuff on the line should be yellow, at least 4 penalties there. Oh they're going to call that back? Haha nice.
We take the points, then opt for the defensive bomb from the kick off. Gooood. Havili a bad defensive read, then Akira a good turnover before Karl knocks it on. Timewasting.
Good breakout from Savea and Havili, then Rieko penalised for holding on. Then time-wasting. Good kick.
Another error, but we're playing catch-up now so par for the course: Reece with the pass to no-one.
Irish illegally slowing ii down, no penalty, then Havili kicks it away aimlessly. We've been doing it all day, but that one is particularly criminal. Some scrappy play, more timewasting, we give away another penalty, and that's about it.Not a great game really. The Irish had a crack on attack which was nice and looked fluent at times, they certainly tried more than we did, and thoroughly deserved the win. That was a whole lot of errors in one game on our side, in selections, tactics, on-field decisions, subs, inability to exit, lack of composure, and basic catching and passing skills.
Foster is right though, the backs were worse than the forwards. Shame that's the only thing he's right about.
What a fucking shambles. -
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
Bu that was when everything was player-led. So everything was done in spite of Foster. Achievements can't be claimed by him.
Perhaps a lot of the problems are with the players and taking ownership and may have been there for a while. Thought that was improving towards the middle of the RC but the headless-chicken syndrome may have crept back in.
I think when the Abs play at breakneck speed and passes stick, nobody is living with them. Savea's try against Boks in 2nd RC test is an example of this. The problem seems to be that they want to play at this speed ALL the time, rather than choosing when to raise the tempo to catch the opposition unawares.
This.
I've just watched the last 5 minutes of the 2013 Ireland game when we won in the dying minutes. The contrast in managing the pace of the game to eliminate errors compared to Saturday is there to see - along with the body-language, player communication and decision-making. Cool heads and on-field management more than just raw talent.
PS: Check out Nonu calmly waiting for a bobbling ball to come to him rather than snatching it, running a perfect angle to take out 3 Irish defenders and then recycling the ball quickly. Object lesson in Rugby smarts.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
Bu that was when everything was player-led. So everything was done in spite of Foster. Achievements can't be claimed by him.
Perhaps a lot of the problems are with the players and taking ownership and may have been there for a while. Thought that was improving towards the middle of the RC but the headless-chicken syndrome may have crept back in.
I think when the Abs play at breakneck speed and passes stick, nobody is living with them. Savea's try against Boks in 2nd RC test is an example of this. The problem seems to be that they want to play at this speed ALL the time, rather than choosing when to raise the tempo to catch the opposition unawares.
This.
I've just watched the last 5 minutes of the 2013 Ireland game when we won in the dying minutes. The contrast in managing the pace of the game to eliminate errors compared to Saturday is there to see - along with the body-language, player communication and decision-making. Cool heads and on-field management more than just raw talent.
PS: Check out Nonu calmly waiting for a bobbling ball to come to him rather than snatching it, running a perfect angle to take out 3 Irish defenders and then recycling the ball quickly. Object lesson in Rugby smarts.
That would be the 90 test veteran Nonu playing in that Irish match. So he’d been around the block a few times to know not to panic…
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Really good read from Murray Kinsella. Ireland had some work to do on Saturday...
https://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-defence-analysis-5602053-Nov2021/#comments
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Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Moody, for his part, challenged a question about the forwards’ performance in Dublin.
"What specifically are you getting it, in regards to the pack?'' a scratchy Moody responded.
He went on to defend their efforts, when measured against the physicality of the impressive Irish forwards, who thrived on the glut of possession and were tidy with their ball control.
"Yeah, it was definitely a tough night at the office, and it was a physical game,’’ Moody stated. “But at the same time, when you are talking about the pack - as a pack we didn't take any backward steps or anything like that.
"I don't think speaking of the pack, specifically, is that where we let the game go.''
I must've been mistaken that they got monstered in the collisions
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Moody, for his part, challenged a question about the forwards’ performance in Dublin.
"What specifically are you getting it, in regards to the pack?'' a scratchy Moody responded.
He went on to defend their efforts, when measured against the physicality of the impressive Irish forwards, who thrived on the glut of possession and were tidy with their ball control.
"Yeah, it was definitely a tough night at the office, and it was a physical game,’’ Moody stated. “But at the same time, when you are talking about the pack - as a pack we didn't take any backward steps or anything like that.
"I don't think speaking of the pack, specifically, is that where we let the game go.''
I must've been mistaken that they got monstered in the collisions
Not sure about not taking any backward steps but AB tight five didn't make many forward ones.
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Righto, the depressing watch continues. 2nd half starts with an aimless kicking comp, and ends with Dalton harshly penalised at the ruck. Ireland attack with reasonable fluidity and our defence is on the back foot, we look tired. Their (small) hooker crashes over our well set defensive line because we don't get up fast/aggressively/low enough. Poor effort at the end mostly from Laulala and Savea, but the defence throughout that movement was too passive, giving them easy metres and momentum. Tired?
Finally we get some decent ball, and we kick it away (Mounga). They give us another crack and Jordan knocks it on but we get the scrum? so get a third go. Our scrum dominates but no penalty awarded, we go wide and Rieko throws it away miles behind Jordie after managing to collect a shitty pass himself. Almost like he wanted to make sure of the error this time.
Back in our 22, so obviously now is the time to run it rather than kicking it away. We fuck it up, Reece with a shit pass to Moody, but what the fuck were we doing fucking around with it there anyway? Ref misses the knock on, so TJ makes a shitty short clearance and Ireland get another attacking lineout and score as Taylor just straight up misses a tackle.
Jordie wins the kick off (been good in the air) and we get a running chance. TJ kills the momentum with ruck dithering, then passes behind Laulala who drops it and now we're back on our line as the Irish 9 kicks well. Somehow we turn it over, then obviously miss touch on the clearance by Havili. Then Havili offside, 3 more points down.
Oh and we brought some subs on. Bit late given how poked Laulala in particular looked and the mistakes he was making.
We get good ball in their half off the kick-off return after Jordie does more good aerial work, which TJ immediately kicks away - not a bad attacking kick for Reece out of context, but in context holding onto the fucking ball might be a nice change. The Irish exit cleanly into touch near halfway as you'd expect professional footy players to do.
We attack with a nice little lineout move, then some poor reffing sees Havili stripped off the ball by the tackler with his knees already on the ground.
Bit of kicking then we lose a lineout due to a shit Coles throw. Back in our own half yet again, but Jordan breaks out and scores a good try. Good from Rieko too there.
Forwards fuck up the kick off reception, Ireland get a penalty for something or other? and kick it.
We get some attacking ball, try to kick it away but Jordan regathers and Akira scores. Irish repeated cynical stuff on the line should be yellow, at least 4 penalties there. Oh they're going to call that back? Haha nice.
We take the points, then opt for the defensive bomb from the kick off. Gooood. Havili a bad defensive read, then Akira a good turnover before Karl knocks it on. Timewasting.
Good breakout from Savea and Havili, then Rieko penalised for holding on. Then time-wasting. Good kick.
Another error, but we're playing catch-up now so par for the course: Reece with the pass to no-one.
Irish illegally slowing ii down, no penalty, then Havili kicks it away aimlessly. We've been doing it all day, but that one is particularly criminal. Some scrappy play, more timewasting, we give away another penalty, and that's about it.Not a great game really. The Irish had a crack on attack which was nice and looked fluent at times, they certainly tried more than we did, and thoroughly deserved the win. That was a whole lot of errors in one game on our side, in selections, tactics, on-field decisions, subs, inability to exit, lack of composure, and basic catching and passing skills.
Foster is right though, the backs were worse than the forwards. Shame that's the only thing he's right about.
What a fucking shambles.@reprobate still have the third quarter shit show etched in memory. That was Bladder who tackled Irish hooker two out and then got shunted over with Nepo trying to get a grip, unsuccessfully.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
Bu that was when everything was player-led. So everything was done in spite of Foster. Achievements can't be claimed by him.
Perhaps a lot of the problems are with the players and taking ownership and may have been there for a while. Thought that was improving towards the middle of the RC but the headless-chicken syndrome may have crept back in.
I think when the Abs play at breakneck speed and passes stick, nobody is living with them. Savea's try against Boks in 2nd RC test is an example of this. The problem seems to be that they want to play at this speed ALL the time, rather than choosing when to raise the tempo to catch the opposition unawares.
This.
I've just watched the last 5 minutes of the 2013 Ireland game when we won in the dying minutes. The contrast in managing the pace of the game to eliminate errors compared to Saturday is there to see - along with the body-language, player communication and decision-making. Cool heads and on-field management more than just raw talent.
PS: Check out Nonu calmly waiting for a bobbling ball to come to him rather than snatching it, running a perfect angle to take out 3 Irish defenders and then recycling the ball quickly. Object lesson in Rugby smarts.
That would be the 90 test veteran Nonu playing in that Irish match. So he’d been around the block a few times to know not to panic…
@act-crusader
Yep. No substitute for experience, on,-field leadership and consistency in selection.
