All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Good game!! Enjoyed it immensely. Both teams had a fucking go, some really good hits, some really good play, and a deserved win for the team that nailed their opportunities.
Yeah we lost, it's a bit shit, but there was some good stuff. Forwards were good. Set piece was good. Backs had some bright moments. George fucking Bridge played bloody well.
What killed us was individual errors, lots and lots of individual errors. And France turning errors in to points.
And a huge issue was our 10 and 15 had absolute stinkers, and the 23 is quite shit. Jordie has a bad day, but us a good player. Mounga is just not a good test match 10, he has no idea what to do against test match level defence. And is an absolute liability on defence. Havili is just not up to it either.
Also, please, pretty please, can this be the death of ardie savea at 8? He is just not good enough, not physical enough, and his ruck work is actually appalling.
Not going to read back so probably repeating someone else but why oh why did Havili come on for Jordan? Surely sticking DMac on the wing with instructions to interchange with JB and RM would have been a better gamble?
The silver lining is that the weaknesses have all been exposed. Now the challenge for the coaches is to recognise who and what isn't up to it and rebuild. The difference someone like Samisoni made was so massively obvious. Move aside Taylor and Coles. Thanks for your service.
All props should be told that unless they show they can play like mobile cannonballs they are gone.
I have sympathy for Whitelock and Rettalick but they need to show up fresh and full of energy or become mentors.
Ardie needs to go to being an impact player with Cane and Pas on the sides and Akira/Hoskins set loose as flying 8sI don't mind our halfback position but hoping for Fakatava to come into the picture.
RM isn't up to playing when not behind a dominant pack/ He has had time since the last world cup to sort that out and hasn't delivered. We need to pull a rabbit out of the hat to support BB.
QT looks worth keeping but I am hoping that PUJ/Wrampling puts options on the table.
Jordan needs to learn to add more to his game than being a (very good) chancer.
The problem being the ABs group don't see any weakness, just a lack of execution. Foster, plumtree, moody after the Ireland game. All said game plan fine, we weren't dominated up front, mostly execution. Maybe they'll learn now? Can't see it with foster since it's been happening since the lions
@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The problem being the ABs group don't see any weakness, just a lack of execution. Foster, plumtree, moody after the Ireland game. All said game plan fine, we weren't dominated up front, mostly execution. Maybe they'll learn now? Can't see it with foster since it's been happening since the lions
They changed tactics at half time and it worked. ST, Akira and Savea were great around the fringes. It looked like we were taking control before the two big moments (YC & intercept)
The lesson is to play tighter, pick more power. The fluff will come later in the game.
Currently we are set up to blow a team off the park from minute one. -
@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Good game!! Enjoyed it immensely. Both teams had a fucking go, some really good hits, some really good play, and a deserved win for the team that nailed their opportunities.
Yeah we lost, it's a bit shit, but there was some good stuff. Forwards were good. Set piece was good. Backs had some bright moments. George fucking Bridge played bloody well.
What killed us was individual errors, lots and lots of individual errors. And France turning errors in to points.
And a huge issue was our 10 and 15 had absolute stinkers, and the 23 is quite shit. Jordie has a bad day, but us a good player. Mounga is just not a good test match 10, he has no idea what to do against test match level defence. And is an absolute liability on defence. Havili is just not up to it either.
Also, please, pretty please, can this be the death of ardie savea at 8? He is just not good enough, not physical enough, and his ruck work is actually appalling.
Not going to read back so probably repeating someone else but why oh why did Havili come on for Jordan? Surely sticking DMac on the wing with instructions to interchange with JB and RM would have been a better gamble?
The silver lining is that the weaknesses have all been exposed. Now the challenge for the coaches is to recognise who and what isn't up to it and rebuild. The difference someone like Samisoni made was so massively obvious. Move aside Taylor and Coles. Thanks for your service.
All props should be told that unless they show they can play like mobile cannonballs they are gone.
I have sympathy for Whitelock and Rettalick but they need to show up fresh and full of energy or become mentors.
Ardie needs to go to being an impact player with Cane and Pas on the sides and Akira/Hoskins set loose as flying 8sI don't mind our halfback position but hoping for Fakatava to come into the picture.
RM isn't up to playing when not behind a dominant pack/ He has had time since the last world cup to sort that out and hasn't delivered. We need to pull a rabbit out of the hat to support BB.
QT looks worth keeping but I am hoping that PUJ/Wrampling puts options on the table.
Jordan needs to learn to add more to his game than being a (very good) chancer.
The problem being the ABs group don't see any weakness, just a lack of execution. Foster, plumtree, moody after the Ireland game. All said game plan fine, we weren't dominated up front, mostly execution. Maybe they'll learn now? Can't see it with foster since it's been happening since the lions
In fairness, between minutes 40-60, they weren't dominated up front and did win back momentum.
Question is - what happened in the first 40 mins and why was the performance so poor? Minutes 40-60 is the blueprint. Headless chicken rugby with nobody setting up a target to play off, especially against Shaun Edward coached defences is asking for trouble.
@stodders not to mention 4+ years ago we owned the final quarter, no longer are we sttong finishers
Is Gil still our strength and conditioning guy? This is another aspect I don't think we are as good with, fitness.
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Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I should note all teams do this, I was simply curious if it was something the refs were policing.
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@stodders not to mention 4+ years ago we owned the final quarter, no longer are we sttong finishers
Is Gil still our strength and conditioning guy? This is another aspect I don't think we are as good with, fitness.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders not to mention 4+ years ago we owned the final quarter, no longer are we sttong finishers
Is Gil still our strength and conditioning guy? This is another aspect I don't think we are as good with, fitness.
I think everyone else got fitter. They had to in order to compete. Everyone knew what was coming from NZ after 60 minutes.
So that tactic doesn't work anymore. Maybe the ABs should try building a lead and asking opponents to chase them down for a change. How radical
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Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I should note all teams do this, I was simply curious if it was something the refs were policing.@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I had noticed this on my watch too, but was trying to avoid having a go at Barnes until the dust had cleared later in the week. That was B/S and right in front of him.
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Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I should note all teams do this, I was simply curious if it was something the refs were policing.@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I think the ABs haven't played the refs v well on this tour. Interpretations differ between NH and SH refs, but ABs used to be better informed about what refs are hot on and what they aren't.
Barnes likes to let a game flow. He'll penalise a team for something clear and obvious (especially at the breakdown). But instances like that need the captain to have a word to bring his attention to it. Maybe NZ will learn this too and grow this part of their game.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I think the ABs haven't played the refs v well on this tour. Interpretations differ between NH and SH refs, but ABs used to be better informed about what refs are hot on and what they aren't.
Barnes likes to let a game flow. He'll penalise a team for something clear and obvious (especially at the breakdown). But instances like that need the captain to have a word to bring his attention to it. Maybe NZ will learn this too and grow this part of their game.
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I think the ABs haven't played the refs v well on this tour. Interpretations differ between NH and SH refs, but ABs used to be better informed about what refs are hot on and what they aren't.
Barnes likes to let a game flow. He'll penalise a team for something clear and obvious (especially at the breakdown). But instances like that need the captain to have a word to bring his attention to it. Maybe NZ will learn this too and grow this part of their game.
We seem to have to adapt to a lot of NH refs deciding when and where they randomly chose to apply the laws of the game (not that I disagree that we need to).
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders not to mention 4+ years ago we owned the final quarter, no longer are we sttong finishers
Is Gil still our strength and conditioning guy? This is another aspect I don't think we are as good with, fitness.
I think everyone else got fitter. They had to in order to compete. Everyone knew what was coming from NZ after 60 minutes.
So that tactic doesn't work anymore. Maybe the ABs should try building a lead and asking opponents to chase them down for a change. How radical
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders not to mention 4+ years ago we owned the final quarter, no longer are we sttong finishers
Is Gil still our strength and conditioning guy? This is another aspect I don't think we are as good with, fitness.
I think everyone else got fitter. They had to in order to compete. Everyone knew what was coming from NZ after 60 minutes.
So that tactic doesn't work anymore. Maybe the ABs should try building a lead and asking opponents to chase them down for a change. How radical
It's another record for foster in the ABs coaching team, 18 points our biggest ever deficit at half time. To add too first loss to Ireland & Argentina, biggest ever loss, biggest ever loss to Oz, worst NH tour in pro era,, etc etc
Meanwhile in Sumner
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I think the ABs haven't played the refs v well on this tour. Interpretations differ between NH and SH refs, but ABs used to be better informed about what refs are hot on and what they aren't.
Barnes likes to let a game flow. He'll penalise a team for something clear and obvious (especially at the breakdown). But instances like that need the captain to have a word to bring his attention to it. Maybe NZ will learn this too and grow this part of their game.
We seem to have to adapt to a lot of NH refs deciding when and where they randomly chose to apply the laws of the game (not that I disagree that we need to).
@nepia said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I think the ABs haven't played the refs v well on this tour. Interpretations differ between NH and SH refs, but ABs used to be better informed about what refs are hot on and what they aren't.
Barnes likes to let a game flow. He'll penalise a team for something clear and obvious (especially at the breakdown). But instances like that need the captain to have a word to bring his attention to it. Maybe NZ will learn this too and grow this part of their game.
We seem to have to adapt to a lot of NH refs deciding when and where they randomly chose to apply the laws of the game (not that I disagree that we need to).
Watch the squidge video versus Ireland, same point. ABs coaching team are not good enough to game the refs. That would imply coming up with a change in plan beyond playing flat & fast, and flinging it wide
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Fantastic match
Best of the Autumn
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Fantastic match
Best of the Autumn
@mikethesnow said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fantastic match
Best of the Autumn
Not flawless though.
Let down by the Kiwi cheese-eating surrender monkeys. -
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
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This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This one is fucken terrible, this is the leadup play to the French try. The two lazy runners have no intention of catching the ball, they continue moving forward and the lock actually moves forward into the defending player (he actually moves to his left on purpose into the defender). the French then target the channel he is blocking which leads to the break.
are we ... GAGR?
I know all teams do it, I'm more interested if this is legal and should it be something the ref's target.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
I would like to find a prop that plays like that Wallaby Tupou fellow
Super Rugby 2022 will hopefully show us some new talent but I am not that confident we will see it. Good time for any player who has higher aspirations to put in some hard work in the gym and on tha paddock
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
I would like to find a prop that plays like that Wallaby Tupou fellow
Super Rugby 2022 will hopefully show us some new talent but I am not that confident we will see it. Good time for any player who has higher aspirations to put in some hard work in the gym and on tha paddock
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
I would like to find a prop that plays like that Wallaby Tupou fellow
Super Rugby 2022 will hopefully show us some new talent but I am not that confident we will see it. Good time for any player who has higher aspirations to put in some hard work in the gym and on tha paddock
you mean the Sacred Heart Thor?
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@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
I would like to find a prop that plays like that Wallaby Tupou fellow
Super Rugby 2022 will hopefully show us some new talent but I am not that confident we will see it. Good time for any player who has higher aspirations to put in some hard work in the gym and on tha paddock
you mean the Sacred Heart Thor?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
I would like to find a prop that plays like that Wallaby Tupou fellow
Super Rugby 2022 will hopefully show us some new talent but I am not that confident we will see it. Good time for any player who has higher aspirations to put in some hard work in the gym and on tha paddock
you mean the Sacred Heart Thor?
Yep the one we let go, had a blinder against Wales last night, our midfield should have a look at his highlights reel
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..
If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.
Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.
I think a full strength Australia side is a good bit better than when we played them.
Do you think NZ would win most of their tests at home? What we're seeing is NZ losing away matches. Losing away is quite common for most other teams, especially in front of large, vocal support.
Honestly, winning 85%+ over last 16/17 years has skewed things. Winning away used to be a great feat. Maybe you'll begin to treasure them again
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@anonymous said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Fozzie has a 75% win percentage as head coach..
If you took out the tests against Tonga, Fiji, USA and Italy, It'd be a 62.5% win rate. So it's an inflated 75% win percentage as well.
Basically we can beat Australia. Against any other Tier 1 we are now 50%.
I think a full strength Australia side is a good bit better than when we played them.
Do you think NZ would win most of their tests at home? What we're seeing is NZ losing away matches. Losing away is quite common for most other teams, especially in front of large, vocal support.
Honestly, winning 85%+ over last 16/17 years has skewed things. Winning away used to be a great feat. Maybe you'll begin to treasure them again
Until recently Ireland had never beaten us. Last week they gave us a hiding.
France snapped a 19? game losing streak, to give us another hiding.
And I'm not going to apologize for saying things are totally shit in the AB camp when we lose to a pretty mediocre Argentina.
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Looking at the Wales vs Wobs game, I don't want to be all doom and gloom but there is a good chance the Bled could be heading across the ditch next year. I was thinking that before the start of this game and now......
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Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I should note all teams do this, I was simply curious if it was something the refs were policing.@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Can someone explain the legality of players purposely taking out defenders or blocking them. Lazy runners is very common in today's game. Here was one example where two players make no attempt to get out of the way and the ball is passed behind them and Ofa is clearly blocked. The player in the head gear is waiting out wide and runs straight at Akira with no real likelihood of getting the ball and takes him out. This creates space wide and it leads to a penalty to France.
I should note all teams do this, I was simply curious if it was something the refs were policing.Wayne Barnes. That's your answer.
