All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@old-samurai-jack my feeling os fozzie more of the try and prove he was right by winning doing the same things (maybe with different people) rather than try and learn and change
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@old-samurai-jack my feeling os fozzie more of the try and prove he was right by winning doing the same things (maybe with different people) rather than try and learn and change
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@old-samurai-jack my feeling os fozzie more of the try and prove he was right by winning doing the same things (maybe with different people) rather than try and learn and change
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
@crazy-horse i think it can be done...i think thats part of how you win a world cup, being able to grow and change throughout the comp, but dont think fozzie will
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@crazy-horse i think it can be done...i think thats part of how you win a world cup, being able to grow and change throughout the comp, but dont think fozzie will
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse i think it can be done...i think thats part of how you win a world cup, being able to grow and change throughout the comp, but dont think fozzie will
You can tinker from week to week but I suspect we are at the stage where tinkering is a band aid and the problems will resurface. I reckon we need more. Hope I am wrong.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse i think it can be done...i think thats part of how you win a world cup, being able to grow and change throughout the comp, but dont think fozzie will
You can tinker from week to week but I suspect we are at the stage where tinkering is a band aid and the problems will resurface. I reckon we need more. Hope I am wrong.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse i think it can be done...i think thats part of how you win a world cup, being able to grow and change throughout the comp, but dont think fozzie will
You can tinker from week to week but I suspect we are at the stage where tinkering is a band aid and the problems will resurface. I reckon we need more. Hope I am wrong.
Can we instill a more direct gameplan and greater aggression in the breakdown inside a week? Those two things and Aaron Smith would give us a massive boost
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@old-samurai-jack my feeling os fozzie more of the try and prove he was right by winning doing the same things (maybe with different people) rather than try and learn and change
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
A few changes can make a big impact:
- A couple of form changes - Taylor and Havili in particular
- A better balanced back row like we saw earlier in the year
- Aaron Smith returns
The side wouldn't look that different from other 23's we've seen in 2021. So it's hardly a drastic change
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’d start Coles and have Sami on the bench.
Props argghhh
Retallick and Whitelock need to lift.
Was watching some highlights of France v Oz and what about a loose trio of
6- Ioane
7-Savea
8-JacobsonBlackadder on the bench.
Backs - don’t really mind who, as long as Smith starts.
That loose trio didn’t work in Bok2.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’d start Coles and have Sami on the bench.
Props argghhh
Retallick and Whitelock need to lift.
Was watching some highlights of France v Oz and what about a loose trio of
6- Ioane
7-Savea
8-JacobsonBlackadder on the bench.
Backs - don’t really mind who, as long as Smith starts.
That loose trio didn’t work in Bok2.
I didn’t think it was that bad. What didn’t work was giving away a last minute penalty!
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@old-samurai-jack my feeling os fozzie more of the try and prove he was right by winning doing the same things (maybe with different people) rather than try and learn and change
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@old-samurai-jack my feeling os fozzie more of the try and prove he was right by winning doing the same things (maybe with different people) rather than try and learn and change
It worked in 2015, and is good enough to get the ABs coaching job, why should foster want to change? He's got two and a half years of cruising, cos he isn't going to be fired.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
A few changes can make a big impact:
- A couple of form changes - Taylor and Havili in particular
- A better balanced back row like we saw earlier in the year
- Aaron Smith returns
The side wouldn't look that different from other 23's we've seen in 2021. So it's hardly a drastic change
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
A few changes can make a big impact:
- A couple of form changes - Taylor and Havili in particular
- A better balanced back row like we saw earlier in the year
- Aaron Smith returns
The side wouldn't look that different from other 23's we've seen in 2021. So it's hardly a drastic change
They have to start some of the younger players, as they don't trust them to finish the game. Given that, it would be a good message to bench Retallick, drop Taylor and either Moody or Laulala go to the bench (or both).
Havili is problematic because we don't have enough fit midfielders that they trust, but I'd send him to the bench too.
We could then bring Moody, Ofa, Coles/Taylor, Retallick, Cane/Papalii, TJP, Mo'unga, and Havili off the bench. There would be no reason to not use all of them and they all should be able to contribute, given their experience. We can also put some minutes into De Groot, Taukeiaho, Vaaii, and Tupaea.
The luckiest in there is Savea, but I don't think they'll now suddenly turn back to Jacobson or Sotutu, even though a really good argument could be made for them doing so.
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@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
A few changes can make a big impact:
- A couple of form changes - Taylor and Havili in particular
- A better balanced back row like we saw earlier in the year
- Aaron Smith returns
The side wouldn't look that different from other 23's we've seen in 2021. So it's hardly a drastic change
They have to start some of the younger players, as they don't trust them to finish the game. Given that, it would be a good message to bench Retallick, drop Taylor and either Moody or Laulala go to the bench (or both).
Havili is problematic because we don't have enough fit midfielders that they trust, but I'd send him to the bench too.
We could then bring Moody, Ofa, Coles/Taylor, Retallick, Cane/Papalii, TJP, Mo'unga, and Havili off the bench. There would be no reason to not use all of them and they all should be able to contribute, given their experience. We can also put some minutes into De Groot, Taukeiaho, Vaaii, and Tupaea.
The luckiest in there is Savea, but I don't think they'll now suddenly turn back to Jacobson or Sotutu, even though a really good argument could be made for them doing so.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
A few changes can make a big impact:
- A couple of form changes - Taylor and Havili in particular
- A better balanced back row like we saw earlier in the year
- Aaron Smith returns
The side wouldn't look that different from other 23's we've seen in 2021. So it's hardly a drastic change
They have to start some of the younger players, as they don't trust them to finish the game. Given that, it would be a good message to bench Retallick, drop Taylor and either Moody or Laulala go to the bench (or both).
Havili is problematic because we don't have enough fit midfielders that they trust, but I'd send him to the bench too.
We could then bring Moody, Ofa, Coles/Taylor, Retallick, Cane/Papalii, TJP, Mo'unga, and Havili off the bench. There would be no reason to not use all of them and they all should be able to contribute, given their experience. We can also put some minutes into De Groot, Taukeiaho, Vaaii, and Tupaea.
The luckiest in there is Savea, but I don't think they'll now suddenly turn back to Jacobson or Sotutu, even though a really good argument could be made for them doing so.
Who starts at First five in your Plan assuming BB is out not Dmac ffs.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it will be pretty close to status quo because I don't think they can change much in a week.
A few changes can make a big impact:
- A couple of form changes - Taylor and Havili in particular
- A better balanced back row like we saw earlier in the year
- Aaron Smith returns
The side wouldn't look that different from other 23's we've seen in 2021. So it's hardly a drastic change
They have to start some of the younger players, as they don't trust them to finish the game. Given that, it would be a good message to bench Retallick, drop Taylor and either Moody or Laulala go to the bench (or both).
Havili is problematic because we don't have enough fit midfielders that they trust, but I'd send him to the bench too.
We could then bring Moody, Ofa, Coles/Taylor, Retallick, Cane/Papalii, TJP, Mo'unga, and Havili off the bench. There would be no reason to not use all of them and they all should be able to contribute, given their experience. We can also put some minutes into De Groot, Taukeiaho, Vaaii, and Tupaea.
The luckiest in there is Savea, but I don't think they'll now suddenly turn back to Jacobson or Sotutu, even though a really good argument could be made for them doing so.
Who starts at First five in your Plan assuming BB is out not Dmac ffs.
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https://c.tenor.com/bj7D0gpVJ4UAAAAM/waltergotme.gif
I forgot about that. Dmac off the bench.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Dmac off the bench.
no! fuck! is that all we have left?
God how do we not have a single decent first 5 in the whole fucking country???
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Dmac off the bench.
no! fuck! is that all we have left?
God how do we not have a single decent first 5 in the whole fucking country???
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Dmac off the bench.
no! fuck! is that all we have left?
God how do we not have a single decent first 5 in the whole fucking country???
This place would go bonkers if Fozzie started him.
Actually, the bench is where he should be, and I'd consider using him at 15 off the bench late, but covering 10.
In fact, if we have to play Mo'unga, they may want to start DMac, as about the only time Mo'unga has looked good is when he is switching out with Dmac.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Dmac off the bench.
no! fuck! is that all we have left?
God how do we not have a single decent first 5 in the whole fucking country???
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
God how do we not have a single decent first 5 in the whole fucking country???
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
I'm a huge BB fan as a rugby player, but a limited 10. RM we've done to death.
9s are a similar problem; how hard is it to coach someone getting to rucks quickly and clearing the ball. It seems very very hard.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
God how do we not have a single decent first 5 in the whole fucking country???
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
I'm a huge BB fan as a rugby player, but a limited 10. RM we've done to death.
9s are a similar problem; how hard is it to coach someone getting to rucks quickly and clearing the ball. It seems very very hard.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
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The French forwards are going to produce thousands of mauls, so Akira Ioane must start. The Irish game has surely worn out the NZ backrow. I reckon a Ioane - Cane - Sotutu combination could be the most effective (Savea or Paps if Cane is not ready).
France has the best LH scrummager in the world (Baille). Laulala is poor in the loose but he can scrum. I'd start him and bring Ofa T when Baille is substitued. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Slade was fine, a classical 10 that I'd argue steers the team better than RM or BB.
Sopoaga I rated, but he disappeared before he really got a chance to show his wares. He was a stretch.
Shall we take Donald instead then?
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Slade was fine, a classical 10 that I'd argue steers the team better than RM or BB.
Sopoaga I rated, but he disappeared before he really got a chance to show his wares. He was a stretch.
Shall we take Donald instead then?
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Slade was fine, a classical 10 that I'd argue steers the team better than RM or BB.
Sopoaga I rated, but he disappeared before he really got a chance to show his wares. He was a stretch.
Shall we take Donald instead then?
I'm going to argue that we need to bring back the
JuniorAll Black 15 and have them play a certain number of tests every year against middle-ranked opposition (Japan, Georgia, Canada, PIs) to give our younger players an environment to move through towards the ABs.I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think we'd be OK with Joane or even Cameron (I can't believe I'm writing that, but there you go) there if we had a set of forwards that was playing with a plan that wasn't 10 years old and Aaron Smith in the 9 jersey.
I think we have to confront the issue that we get piss-all out of our props and Retallick is a mile away from his best, plus Taylor can be dynamic but generally isn't (we don't get Crusader Taylor often enough).
Until we sort out that issue in the starting 15 and off the bench, none of this matters. We do need more size in the backline but that can be achieved by introducing some big bodies (Leicester, Clarke). The issue right now is that other teams are getting far more out their front five and we have to focus there.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Slade was fine, a classical 10 that I'd argue steers the team better than RM or BB.
Sopoaga I rated, but he disappeared before he really got a chance to show his wares. He was a stretch.
Shall we take Donald instead then?
I'm going to argue that we need to bring back the
JuniorAll Black 15 and have them play a certain number of tests every year against middle-ranked opposition (Japan, Georgia, Canada, PIs) to give our younger players an environment to move through towards the ABs.I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think we'd be OK with Joane or even Cameron (I can't believe I'm writing that, but there you go) there if we had a set of forwards that was playing with a plan that wasn't 10 years old and Aaron Smith in the 9 jersey.
I think we have to confront the issue that we get piss-all out of our props and Retallick is a mile away from his best, plus Taylor can be dynamic but generally isn't (we don't get Crusader Taylor often enough).
Until we sort out that issue in the starting 15 and off the bench, none of this matters. We do need more size in the backline but that can be achieved by introducing some big bodies (Leicester, Clarke). The issue right now is that other teams are getting far more out their front five and we have to focus there.
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Somehow I missed this page posted in the match thread:
Reece will really struggle to hold his place this week given his tackling and turnovers. It really showed all of his weaknesses and why he is a stopgap option. I love that he gets involved, but last week showed how Rocks and Diamonds he can be.
Zero metres from Laulala. I'm so fucking sick of that, pus two penalties, and 73$¥% tackling. He might actually have to get dropped completely.
