All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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This loose trio is better balanced, but the insistence on putting Ardie at 8 will always throw it out.
We need an 8 at 8, Sotutu probably the only out and out 8, but he seems out of favour.
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor can’t be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
But that only holds true if Test rugby isn't step-up from Super Rugby, doesn't it?
What ?
Lots of players look good in Super Rugby and struggle up a level in Test rugby.
What has that do with Foster being coach and Razor not being good enough to be AB coach that’s what the discusion was about.
Foster has picked Bridge for 2 years so if he isn’t good enough for Test Rugby that confirms Foster should not be AB coach as he can’t identify who is good enough to play test rugby.
Razor can’t be judged as not being good enough and that’s what the original conversation was about if he hasn’t had a chance .You are the one comparing how players go under Razor, at a lower level of rugby. It's not a good comparison.
No Crucial started that I gave the opposite opinion. As I said to him its not a good comparison reversed either.
No. You are still getting the wrong end of the stick.
I was simply saying (if you go back to my OP) that it is a valid question to ask whether lifting Razor up a step automatically means fixing weaknesses when he has already had a chance to fix those weaknesses in some players for many years (or direct his assistants to do so).
I have not claimed that he is a bad coach. I am questioning why he may not have taken action to improve some of the problems players have already. Maybe he has tried and there is no room for improvement eg RMs decision making under pressure and 'lack' of direction.
If that is the case then that doesn't point to him being able to fix AB problems because no one can probably fix that player further eg can't turn RM into DC.
Therefore given the current cattle he can't turn around the team in those key areas.There is way too much assumption that he would be the saviour of AB rugby and talk of the stupidity of NZR not to appoint him. We heard all the same stuff about Deans but in the end did history show that we threw away a great coach?
No but we sure haven't made a good decision in appointing Foster, we would not have been worse of would we ? .And maybe in a better position than we are now if they had gone with Razor..
I would prefer to see Robertson get a chance on the back of being a winning coach year in year out.
But I would rather have Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck coaching the AB's than the present crop of losers.I don't necessarily disagree but reserve the right to question whether he is the BEST choice when there is a strong likelihood that he will continue the selection of players that have proven to be defective.
If he can bring in a different style that plays to their strengths and doesn't expose their weaknesses then fair enough. I'm just asking the question.To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style. But, if he came in 2024 with a full cycle ahead of him and still went down that route I would think we have a serious problem
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style.
Sounds like a Crusaders supporter's wet dream
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This loose trio is better balanced, but the insistence on putting Ardie at 8 will always throw it out.
We need an 8 at 8, Sotutu probably the only out and out 8, but he seems out of favour.
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
We don't need flash, we us need 9's who can do the basics well and get to the ruck and clear quickly. TJP's shown he's too limited at that except in the final 20.
Christie may not be a world-class 9, but he hasn't looked out of his depth either.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And I can also see that happening, but just like a cricketer on the verge of being dropped, a one effort big knock will paper over the cracks for a while longer.
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And I can also see that happening, but just like a cricketer on the verge of being dropped, a one effort big knock will paper over the cracks for a while longer.
The appropriate analogy would be a struggling cricketer getting dropped a few times and scoring cheaply off some poor bowling just like we are likely to rack up 40 points off intercepts, dropped balls and soft turnovers (and of course a tinny Will Jordan chip and chase)
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
With respect, you’d be very wrong about that. About 2010 or so I had dinner with some friends and a newly capped AB happened to be there. We talked about him being new to the AB environmental and the difference with what he experienced with his Super franchise. He said the biggest difference was the amount of time they out into the basics - catching, passing, tackling, rucking, pushing in scrums, jumping in lineouts. He said in few short weeks in camp his basic skills had improved massively. Whereas at Super level the skills were almost assumed and a bit of afterthought, something they did as a bit of warmup before working on set piece moves and general patterns.
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@mariner4life We are in trouble - but, it's stuff that might be repairable in a week. After all, we had two close games vs the World Champions and shared a series with them.
UK articles after the Italy match were sniffing blood in the water and reckoning we were jaded and ripe for the taking. I didn't give that much credence at the time, because that was our B team - and we brought plenty of defensive intensity and workrate vs Ireland - but, every time we had a chance to break the shackles we fucked it up - by dropping a kick-off or an untidy exit, or an aimless kick, or a wild pass, or shit handling, or losing our own lineout throw.
We need to be brighter. I've barely got the heart to ask who tapped and ran a penalty under our own posts when we'd been pinned down there? I guess if they were looking for an element of surprise it probably worked, because it fucking surprised me!
@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life We are in trouble - but, it's stuff that might be repairable in a week. After all, we had two close games vs the World Champions and shared a series with them.
UK articles after the Italy match were sniffing blood in the water and reckoning we were jaded and ripe for the taking. I didn't give that much credence at the time, because that was our B team - and we brought plenty of defensive intensity and workrate vs Ireland - but, every time we had a chance to break the shackles we fucked it up - by dropping a kick-off or an untidy exit, or an aimless kick, or a wild pass, or shit handling, or losing our own lineout throw.
We need to be brighter. I've barely got the heart to ask who tapped and ran a penalty under our own posts when we'd been pinned down there? I guess if they were looking for an element of surprise it probably worked, because it fucking surprised me!
It also surprised everyone one else in our team which is why it ended up being such a fucked option. Had we all been in the same page and not completely rooted from the defensive effort leading up to it we’d have had a staunch defensive line approaching one or two isolated Irish attackers near halfway.
Ps: It was TJ!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Great Aaron is back, but gee if TJ doesn't get the hint from this and this coaching team don't realise at this moment the gap from Aaron to next cab is far too big and need to have developing players behind Webber is thier one of thier main jobs for 2022
We don't need flash, we us need 9's who can do the basics well and get to the ruck and clear quickly. TJP's shown he's too limited at that except in the final 20.
Christie may not be a world-class 9, but he hasn't looked out of his depth either.
@victor-meldrew true, but the basics for a good 9 is a good passing game, good kicking game, good defender, good organiser...Aaron is exceptional at 2 aspects of those skills, very good at another and pretty good at the other.
For me they would be ranked in this order:
1 Passing game
2 Organising
3 Kicking
4 defending -
@sparky said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Why on earth has that clown Foster dropped Papali'i?
French by 10-14.
I love me some Dalton, but I can understand the switch. Paps has had a great year- Sam's coming back from injury, but is one hell of a solid player. Rest is a real consideration, particularly for people with a heavy workload. 5 tests in consecutive weeks means rotation.
@KiwiMurph I think the only reason they haven't figured it out is the presumption that Ardie has to be in there. That starts to drive other decisions - height, offense/defense, etc.
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@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style.
Sounds like a Crusaders supporter's wet dream
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style.
Sounds like a Crusaders supporter's wet dream
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
Much like Franks before him, I tend to query just how good a scrummager he is. Does he never, ever, ever get penalised or FK'd? Does he absolutely dominate, or is he just mostly reliable on our own ball, but like Franks, prone to giving away the occasional penalty? Because that just doesn't cut it for me - I'll take an extra 1 or 2 penalties at scrumtime for someone who can actually hurt the opposition in every other aspect of play (ball in hand, distribution, tackling, lineouts, rucks, mauls....).
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
Much like Franks before him, I tend to query just how good a scrummager he is. Does he never, ever, ever get penalised or FK'd? Does he absolutely dominate, or is he just mostly reliable on our own ball, but like Franks, prone to giving away the occasional penalty?
I don't disagree with you, but my comment about Laulala's scrummaging is relative to the alternatives. Ofa gets penalised regularly, as a comparison.
None of the AB props offer much around the field, which starts at SR level.
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At least with Bridge starting, he will set a target for the forwards. Likely only a few metres away after receiving the ball.
Reece was too frantic last week and made too many errors. If Ioane is to be used as a centre in the future then Clarke or Fainga'anuku need to be on the left wing.
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At least with Bridge starting, he will set a target for the forwards. Likely only a few metres away after receiving the ball.
Reece was too frantic last week and made too many errors. If Ioane is to be used as a centre in the future then Clarke or Fainga'anuku need to be on the left wing.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
Much like Franks before him, I tend to query just how good a scrummager he is. Does he never, ever, ever get penalised or FK'd? Does he absolutely dominate, or is he just mostly reliable on our own ball, but like Franks, prone to giving away the occasional penalty?
I don't disagree with you, but my comment about Laulala's scrummaging is relative to the alternatives. Ofa gets penalised regularly, as a comparison.
None of the AB props offer much around the field, which starts at SR level.
@bovidae Tu'ungafasi has been a lot better than other AB props in terms of ball carrying, dominant tackling, and pace around the field - reasons why he has been the "super sub" for a long time. Still gives away at least one offside or ruck penalty each game though. We have missed his impact this year.
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@bovidae Tu'ungafasi has been a lot better than other AB props in terms of ball carrying, dominant tackling, and pace around the field - reasons why he has been the "super sub" for a long time. Still gives away at least one offside or ruck penalty each game though. We have missed his impact this year.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style.
Sounds like a Crusaders supporter's wet dream
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@junior said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
To be honest, I would completely understand if he came in now or very close to the RWC and basically went all Cantablacks (with a few key plug ins) in order to try and blag a RWC Rassie style.
Sounds like a Crusaders supporter's wet dream
Sounds like success to me,But just a bitter comment really.
Bring on Razor and dump the little fat wombat .
