All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
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I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)... -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...If it is a 2004 45-6 type of performance, then I'm sure ppl will be happy
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...Their form fluctuates a bit but not to to the point of being easy-beats. So if we win convincingly then we will have played well.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...Their form fluctuates a bit but not to to the point of being easy-beats. So if we win convincingly then we will have played well.
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I’m going to leave judgement until after the match.
If we get slaughtered - coaches out please
If we win convincingly not only on the scoreboard but also on the pitch - fair play to foster.
A middling display - coaches out please
but how consistently have France been playing? If not very consistent, then the result might not be very revealing.
2019: Scraped past Tonga in the group stage, just lost to Wales by 1 in RWC QF.
2021: Thrashed Italy (50-10), beat Ireland (15-13), just lost to England (20-23)..just beat Wales (32-30), lost to Scotland by 4 (23-27)...Their form fluctuates a bit but not to to the point of being easy-beats. So if we win convincingly then we will have played well.
Fair enough!
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Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
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After last week France would have to be faves for this test, how well do they deal with that.
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Sotutu or Jacobson havent had a fair go this tour. Both decent players.
Are you saying the All Blacks should be about a “fair go”?
What does that even mean when top level pro sport has never been about objectivity.
@act-crusader cant see the point of taking good players on a long tour and getting minimal game time
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@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Conservative starting selection.
6-2 split, with two locks and no demi du melee (9) on bench.
Potential for three Wesley Old Boys on field at same time!
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@frye said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Conservative starting selection.
6-2 split, with two locks and no demi du melee (9) on bench.
Potential for three Wesley Old Boys on field at same time!
EDIT: Wrong Lucu -- Maxine is a 9.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
There isn't another team that comes even close to what the ABs did under Henry, then Hansen, in terms of winning record. Given how many internationals that are played nowadays, Henry's team only losing twice to NH opposition was quite frankly a ludicrous achievement over 8 years. It was always unlikely that the ABs would be able to maintain their standards, and other teams to not raise theirs.
So yes, the ABs have moved back towards the mean and other nations have raised their game. In terms of having a competitive sport, isn't that the goal?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
There isn't another team that comes even close to what the ABs did under Henry, then Hansen, in terms of winning record. Given how many internationals that are played nowadays, Henry's team only losing twice to NH opposition was quite frankly a ludicrous achievement over 8 years. It was always unlikely that the ABs would be able to maintain their standards, and other teams to not raise theirs.
So yes, the ABs have moved back towards the mean and other nations have raised their game. In terms of having a competitive sport, isn't that the goal?
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
There isn't another team that comes even close to what the ABs did under Henry, then Hansen, in terms of winning record. Given how many internationals that are played nowadays, Henry's team only losing twice to NH opposition was quite frankly a ludicrous achievement over 8 years. It was always unlikely that the ABs would be able to maintain their standards, and other teams to not raise theirs.
So yes, the ABs have moved back towards the mean and other nations have raised their game. In terms of having a competitive sport, isn't that the goal?
Its not about losing as much as how we are losing to the same teams that play the same way against us.
And we can't come up with game plans and tactics to overcome these teams its been a pattern since the WC lose to England in 2019.
Its the same old loses with no progression,if Foster and co are so Awesome as a coaching unit,Change something to get the AB's going forward.It has been one of our strengths to re invent the game somewhat to stay ahead of the pack.
But now we are content to fall back into the pack, and just become another team not the AB's anymore.
As we are getting beaten badly more regularly our revenue stream will diminsh and the AB's reputation will tarnish more and more and we will never be the same again. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
There isn't another team that comes even close to what the ABs did under Henry, then Hansen, in terms of winning record. Given how many internationals that are played nowadays, Henry's team only losing twice to NH opposition was quite frankly a ludicrous achievement over 8 years. It was always unlikely that the ABs would be able to maintain their standards, and other teams to not raise theirs.
So yes, the ABs have moved back towards the mean and other nations have raised their game. In terms of having a competitive sport, isn't that the goal?
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
How much was due to Joe Schmidt? Or are there other key factors?
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
How much was due to Joe Schmidt? Or are there other key factors?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
How much was due to Joe Schmidt? Or are there other key factors?
Joe Schmidt and others have definitely lifted northern hemisphere rugby as have Southern Hemisphere players playing in all the comps over there, even at the end of their careers and with form dropping off they still bring the strong work ethic and winning attitude to the game where until a few years ago teams like Wales, Ireland and Scotland used to celebrate an honourable loss.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
How much was due to Joe Schmidt? Or are there other key factors?
Joe Schmidt and others have definitely lifted northern hemisphere rugby as have Southern Hemisphere players playing in all the comps over there, even at the end of their careers and with form dropping off they still bring the strong work ethic and winning attitude to the game where until a few years ago teams like Wales, Ireland and Scotland used to celebrate an honourable loss.
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
How much was due to Joe Schmidt? Or are there other key factors?
Joe Schmidt and others have definitely lifted northern hemisphere rugby as have Southern Hemisphere players playing in all the comps over there, even at the end of their careers and with form dropping off they still bring the strong work ethic and winning attitude to the game where until a few years ago teams like Wales, Ireland and Scotland used to celebrate an honourable loss.
Ta.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
There isn't another team that comes even close to what the ABs did under Henry, then Hansen, in terms of winning record. Given how many internationals that are played nowadays, Henry's team only losing twice to NH opposition was quite frankly a ludicrous achievement over 8 years. It was always unlikely that the ABs would be able to maintain their standards, and other teams to not raise theirs.
So yes, the ABs have moved back towards the mean and other nations have raised their game. In terms of having a competitive sport, isn't that the goal?
Its not about losing as much as how we are losing to the same teams that play the same way against us.
And we can't come up with game plans and tactics to overcome these teams its been a pattern since the WC lose to England in 2019.
Its the same old loses with no progression,if Foster and co are so Awesome as a coaching unit,Change something to get the AB's going forward.It has been one of our strengths to re invent the game somewhat to stay ahead of the pack.
But now we are content to fall back into the pack, and just become another team not the AB's anymore.
As we are getting beaten badly more regularly our revenue stream will diminsh and the AB's reputation will tarnish more and more and we will never be the same again.@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Typically it we beat France outside a world cup it's shrugged off as France B/C or the end of a long season or... something else.
This year is different!! Welcome back to the chasing pack again where every game means something
See this irritates me, it is a subtle lowering of standards and expectations. We had never lost to Ireland until recently, so that's not "welcome back to what was previously normal after an abnormal period of a really good team", it is a new low. The aussie eales era vs now fits that description, not the abs.
I could understand this if Ireland played like they did 20 years ago. But they don't. They are a professional outfit that have probably improved more than any other nation in the last 20 years.
There isn't another team that comes even close to what the ABs did under Henry, then Hansen, in terms of winning record. Given how many internationals that are played nowadays, Henry's team only losing twice to NH opposition was quite frankly a ludicrous achievement over 8 years. It was always unlikely that the ABs would be able to maintain their standards, and other teams to not raise theirs.
So yes, the ABs have moved back towards the mean and other nations have raised their game. In terms of having a competitive sport, isn't that the goal?
Its not about losing as much as how we are losing to the same teams that play the same way against us.
And we can't come up with game plans and tactics to overcome these teams its been a pattern since the WC lose to England in 2019.
Its the same old loses with no progression,if Foster and co are so Awesome as a coaching unit,Change something to get the AB's going forward.It has been one of our strengths to re invent the game somewhat to stay ahead of the pack.
But now we are content to fall back into the pack, and just become another team not the AB's anymore.
As we are getting beaten badly more regularly our revenue stream will diminsh and the AB's reputation will tarnish more and more and we will never be the same again.I heard the same things in 2009 when you lost 3 times to the Boks. Worst case scenario for me...the next 2 years you'll be competitive, you'll win more than you lose and you'll probably make the semis of the WC after losing to the French in pool play, losing your record of never having lost a pool match (another record Foster can say he lost
).At that point, you can select a new coach, who will have some new, fresh faces coming through that he can hopefully mould into a decent unit for the next 4-8 year cycle.
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I think this is probably about right
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I think this is going to be an incredibly tough game for the ABs. It's the end if an insanely long tour, and the players will be seriously looking forward to getting home to their friends and family again. The majority of teams would have one foot on the plane at this stage, it will be a hell of an effort mentally to get up for this.
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I think this is going to be an incredibly tough game for the ABs. It's the end if an insanely long tour, and the players will be seriously looking forward to getting home to their friends and family again. The majority of teams would have one foot on the plane at this stage, it will be a hell of an effort mentally to get up for this.
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I think this is going to be an incredibly tough game for the ABs. It's the end if an insanely long tour, and the players will be seriously looking forward to getting home to their friends and family again. The majority of teams would have one foot on the plane at this stage, it will be a hell of an effort mentally to get up for this.
They will want to end on a high note after last weekend
