Super Rugby 2023
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Canes4life Haha ironically Perenara was probably one of the best at that too - had great timing.
You can see how the new WR focus has sped up the game a lot in the Six Nations so hopefully it filters through to Super.
I'm all for it, as a fan seeing clean ball on a more consistent basis has to be a good thing. The only way to put pressure on a halfback/no8 now is to dominate in the scrum - advantage Crusaders in that respect.
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Canes4life Haha ironically Perenara was probably one of the best at that too - had great timing.
You can see how the new WR focus has sped up the game a lot in the Six Nations so hopefully it filters through to Super.
I'm all for it, as a fan seeing clean ball on a more consistent basis has to be a good thing. The only way to put pressure on a halfback/no8 now is to dominate in the scrum - advantage Crusaders in that respect.
Also has the side effect of less scrums becoming another scrum by less pressured fumbles.
Is a big yawn when a slowly set scrum is then disrupted by negative spoiling and we all stop again while the same players re-organise for another set up. -
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
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Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
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Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
That would be fine if you coupled the play with free kick restarts
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
Gotta love this quote...
It is a gamble because gains in one area can come at the cost of the other, although added size is a safer bet in the modern game because of the amount of stoppage time.
Somebody didn't get the WR press release
A rule that I actually quite liked from this game was that halfbacks are no longer allowed to come around and annoy their opposites when they are trying to clear/run the ball from scrum time.
Apparently, this is going to be a rule in Super Rugby so I'm happy that the likes of Ardie Savea get to pick up the ball without some pesky little halfback getting in his way.
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
Gotta love this quote...
It is a gamble because gains in one area can come at the cost of the other, although added size is a safer bet in the modern game because of the amount of stoppage time.
Somebody didn't get the WR press release
A rule that I actually quite liked from this game was that halfbacks are no longer allowed to come around and annoy their opposites when they are trying to clear/run the ball from scrum time.
Apparently, this is going to be a rule in Super Rugby so I'm happy that the likes of Ardie Savea get to pick up the ball without some pesky little halfback getting in his way.
It's unnecessary considering scrumhalves can't come around the scrum if you're competent at keeping the ball in the right place - they'll all be offside if they do.
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I reckon we will almost any scrum 10m from touchline, the 9's will be tossing up a kick for blindside winger to chase and compete for, bloody sure they would if I was coach.
As Mariner says, rugby to me is much better played as a chaos game where skills etc have to be played under pressure. One of reasons I don't watch NRL, NFL etc , not enough contest!
I understand what the powers that be are trying to achieve, it's a game that looks good on tv, not sure it's a better game to play or really watch live.. I loved playing when there was no lifting in lineouts, and you know you got up(or stopped opponent) under your own power, same as hammering a 9 that was a bit slow on the pass, and that made everyone work on skills and thinking quicker.
I believe the idea of no pressure on 9 will see the likes of Aaron Smith etc who can pass quickly under pressure won't be treasured, we have already lot 9's that dive pass as not really needed. -
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
Right now, I'd like to take out anything that allows defences to know that they can bolt up, and although this seems like is helping the attacking team, I wonder whether the un-intentional result will be to allow defences to get even faster.
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
Right now, I'd like to take out anything that allows defences to know that they can bolt up, and although this seems like is helping the attacking team, I wonder whether the un-intentional result will be to allow defences to get even faster.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
Right now, I'd like to take out anything that allows defences to know that they can bolt up, and although this seems like is helping the attacking team, I wonder whether the un-intentional result will be to allow defences to get even faster.
no data to support, pure eye test, but chaos ball tends to put defenses on their heels. Look how often a ball to ground creates a linebreak.
slow ball creates linespeed.
90% guaranteed lineout ball creates linespeed. -
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
Right now, I'd like to take out anything that allows defences to know that they can bolt up, and although this seems like is helping the attacking team, I wonder whether the un-intentional result will be to allow defences to get even faster.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2023:
Although it's another step in taking the contest/skill out of the game!! A halfback is not going to have any pressure , I also think it will lead to more kicking out of hand by 9s, as no pressure on them. If you a fan of that kind of stuff, great, I like when players have to be skilled enough to pass under pressure etc.
yep, I'm with you. If i wanted contests taken out of the game then i would watch even more NFL.
I want MORE contest. Take out lifting for kick-offs. Take out lifting in lineouts. Be hard as fuck on attacking players leaving their feet at the ruck. if the ball is available call it out. Messy play is good play. The best moments in the Ireland v France game were from errors.
Right now, I'd like to take out anything that allows defences to know that they can bolt up, and although this seems like is helping the attacking team, I wonder whether the un-intentional result will be to allow defences to get even faster.
Well the halfback rule hasn't been adjusted to yet according to this article
I don't entirely get this as the 8 has always had one side to attack. This change only means that they have an extra stride toward the defender.
This rule has also been the case at junior levels for a long time I think and from memory the 'smart' thing to do if you want to reduce options down the blindside is for the defending halfback to swap sides. They can do that if they stay within a metre. But then that is the case normally anyway, it is just that the better option is still to pressure from the openside.
Defenders will need to create a stronger 1st channel which may mean that we see 10s defending elsewhere of setpieces even more -
@Stargazer happy enough with the principle, with the scrums though, 30 sec is actually a really long time, especially if we have any re sets, will be interesting, "30 seconds of the respective marks being set" will there be 10-20 from the whistle blow to the ref actually stepping in and marking the spot
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@Stargazer I like the red card decision being made while player in sinbin too, we don't need to see the refs watching constant replays to decide between red and yellow card.. Quick look and decided it's a yellow or worse, and let the TMO decide the severeity.. Anything that stops the players having extra rests too!
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I think it should be 60 secs for conversions as well. That would stop the try-scorer kicking or throwing the ball into the crowd in celebration, and then waiting for the ball to be returned. If you want to do that fine, but your goal kicker might not be too pleased.
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I think it should be 60 secs for conversions as well. That would stop the try-scorer kicking or throwing the ball into the crowd in celebration, and then waiting for the ball to be returned. If you want to do that fine, but your goal kicker might not be too pleased.
@Bovidae have to say, i dont get the whole "have to use the ball the try was scored with" they should all be the same etc, kind of seems like a this contrived rule...just because
happy to have a time limit and 60 sec seems enough but just give them a ball and lets get on with it
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I think it should be 60 secs for conversions as well. That would stop the try-scorer kicking or throwing the ball into the crowd in celebration, and then waiting for the ball to be returned. If you want to do that fine, but your goal kicker might not be too pleased.
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think it should be 60 secs for conversions as well. That would stop the try-scorer kicking or throwing the ball into the crowd in celebration, and then waiting for the ball to be returned. If you want to do that fine, but your goal kicker might not be too pleased.
It used to be 60 seconds from the kicker indicating intention (which was the usually the tee coming out) but has become 90 seconds from the try being awarded.
Those celebrations will now eat into the time and the kicker will have to crack on with things as some have worked out routines for the 60 second rule. -
@Bovidae have to say, i dont get the whole "have to use the ball the try was scored with" they should all be the same etc, kind of seems like a this contrived rule...just because
happy to have a time limit and 60 sec seems enough but just give them a ball and lets get on with it
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Bovidae have to say, i dont get the whole "have to use the ball the try was scored with" they should all be the same etc, kind of seems like a this contrived rule...just because
happy to have a time limit and 60 sec seems enough but just give them a ball and lets get on with it
As above the law is now 90 from scoring and using the same ball should mean urgency in getting to the mark and setting up. If you depend on a ball boy then it is hard for the ref to judge fairness and when to start the time.
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@Stargazer I like the red card decision being made while player in sinbin too, we don't need to see the refs watching constant replays to decide between red and yellow card.. Quick look and decided it's a yellow or worse, and let the TMO decide the severeity.. Anything that stops the players having extra rests too!
@Dan54 In principle, yes, but changing a yellow into a red gives the TMO a huge power that can seriously impact games. Thinking of the terribly biased TMOs we've seen in games in the not too distant past (especially some South African TMOs who blatantly influenced or tried to influence the outcome of games), extra care should be taken that the TMO isn't only technically good at his job, but also impartial. And no room for pedantic types.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Bovidae have to say, i dont get the whole "have to use the ball the try was scored with" they should all be the same etc, kind of seems like a this contrived rule...just because
happy to have a time limit and 60 sec seems enough but just give them a ball and lets get on with it
As above the law is now 90 from scoring and using the same ball should mean urgency in getting to the mark and setting up. If you depend on a ball boy then it is hard for the ref to judge fairness and when to start the time.
@Crucial make sense i guess but also pretty nit picky, there are several balls knocking about, think it would be a VERY rare occurrence for a ballkid to not be right there ready to give a kicker the ball, like we've added all this fine print to the laws trying to speed things....but its just extra complexity
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@Crucial make sense i guess but also pretty nit picky, there are several balls knocking about, think it would be a VERY rare occurrence for a ballkid to not be right there ready to give a kicker the ball, like we've added all this fine print to the laws trying to speed things....but its just extra complexity
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial make sense i guess but also pretty nit picky, there are several balls knocking about, think it would be a VERY rare occurrence for a ballkid to not be right there ready to give a kicker the ball, like we've added all this fine print to the laws trying to speed things....but its just extra complexity
I get what you are saying but I guess that the 'same ball' part gives the ref (or time clock) certainty on when to start the countdown.
Try is awarded = clock startsUse a second ball and there is no governance on the time between the try being awarded and the start of the clock. Also kicker gets to choose where the kick is from so you'd potentially have a ball being delivered to start the clock but maybe not where the kicker wants it.
I do agree that 90 seems a long time but also think that if you are going to use a clock then the process has to be clear.
At times when a TMO is involved the kicker will effectively have 90 seconds if they pre-empt the decision. That should be cut to 60 .
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial make sense i guess but also pretty nit picky, there are several balls knocking about, think it would be a VERY rare occurrence for a ballkid to not be right there ready to give a kicker the ball, like we've added all this fine print to the laws trying to speed things....but its just extra complexity
I get what you are saying but I guess that the 'same ball' part gives the ref (or time clock) certainty on when to start the countdown.
Try is awarded = clock startsUse a second ball and there is no governance on the time between the try being awarded and the start of the clock. Also kicker gets to choose where the kick is from so you'd potentially have a ball being delivered to start the clock but maybe not where the kicker wants it.
I do agree that 90 seems a long time but also think that if you are going to use a clock then the process has to be clear.
At times when a TMO is involved the kicker will effectively have 90 seconds if they pre-empt the decision. That should be cut to 60 .
@Crucial yeah, i guess i just come from the other side, just make take the rule (60 sec from try being awarded)...and thats it work out the rest on the field, so kickers will just get use to looking for the closest ball kid as soon as a try is scored. a very simple rule and let the player work out the rest
