Super Rugby 2023
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@Chris said in Super Rugby 2023:
Some interesting concepts being talked about for Super Rugby
A Super Rugby conference in Auckland has produced a number of ideas to be considered for 2024 and beyond
A player draft is being mooted by Rugby Australia and could become a televised event but it’s unlikely to be actioned by 2024
Australian teams were aligned in wanting a reduced role for the TMO and fewer stoppages
Rugby Australia is pushing for a 60-second scrum clockThe draft is an interesting idea... it may even the playing field, but kinda removes a bit of the tribalism/ regionalism from it.
I mean like does anyone want the likes of mcCaw having played for the Canes? Or Fitzy playing for the landers....
The other two ideas I like tho...
@Mackerzzzz a draft would require team to have more than 1 or 2 spots open at the end of the NPC season, assuming thats where you draft from.
Or you have an U21 Super comp, and super teams draft from there, but most of the good ones are already snapped up before they are 21 anyway.
Honestly dont see there being enough $$$ in the game for drafts.
Happy to reduce scrum stoppages, and less TMO intervention.
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@Mackerzzzz a draft would require team to have more than 1 or 2 spots open at the end of the NPC season, assuming thats where you draft from.
Or you have an U21 Super comp, and super teams draft from there, but most of the good ones are already snapped up before they are 21 anyway.
Honestly dont see there being enough $$$ in the game for drafts.
Happy to reduce scrum stoppages, and less TMO intervention.
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Mackerzzzz a draft would require team to have more than 1 or 2 spots open at the end of the NPC season, assuming thats where you draft from.
Or you have an U21 Super comp, and super teams draft from there, but most of the good ones are already snapped up before they are 21 anyway.
Honestly dont see there being enough $$$ in the game for drafts.
Happy to reduce scrum stoppages, and less TMO intervention.
and a shot clock for kicks at goalsome seem to take minutes
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Some interesting concepts being talked about for Super Rugby
A Super Rugby conference in Auckland has produced a number of ideas to be considered for 2024 and beyond
A player draft is being mooted by Rugby Australia and could become a televised event but it’s unlikely to be actioned by 2024
Australian teams were aligned in wanting a reduced role for the TMO and fewer stoppages
Rugby Australia is pushing for a 60-second scrum clock@Chris I don't know how a draft would work (I don't follow American sports), but it sounds like a terrible idea. What's the point of developing players in a franchise's academy if that franchise can't be reasonably sure that they actually get to benefit from developing those players, if they want to? Of course, under the current system sometimes players leave, too, but it's more the exception than the rule when a player signs with another franchise before having played for the franchise that developed him.
Even worse if a NZ developed player is drafted by an Aussie franchise, and then being snapped up by the Wallabies.
If it would force players - who have always dreamt of playing for their "home franchise" - to play for another franchise, then players may rather go for a bigger pay check overseas than being drafted by the Force or Rebels (or another NZ franchise). A player should have the freedom to play for the team he wants to play for, if that team wants him too.
Agree with @Mackerzzzz about the loss of tribalism.
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@Chris I don't know how a draft would work (I don't follow American sports), but it sounds like a terrible idea. What's the point of developing players in a franchise's academy if that franchise can't be reasonably sure that they actually get to benefit from developing those players, if they want to? Of course, under the current system sometimes players leave, too, but it's more the exception than the rule when a player signs with another franchise before having played for the franchise that developed him.
Even worse if a NZ developed player is drafted by an Aussie franchise, and then being snapped up by the Wallabies.
If it would force players - who have always dreamt of playing for their "home franchise" - to play for another franchise, then players may rather go for a bigger pay check overseas than being drafted by the Force or Rebels (or another NZ franchise). A player should have the freedom to play for the team he wants to play for, if that team wants him too.
Agree with @Mackerzzzz about the loss of tribalism.
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Chris I don't know how a draft would work (I don't follow American sports), but it sounds like a terrible idea. What's the point of developing players in a franchise's academy if that franchise can't be reasonably sure that they actually get to benefit from developing those players, if they want to? Of course, under the current system sometimes players leave, too, but it's more the exception than the rule when a player signs with another franchise before having played for the franchise that developed him.
Even worse if a NZ developed player is drafted by an Aussie franchise, and then being snapped up by the Wallabies.
If it would force players - who have always dreamt of playing for their "home franchise" - to play for another franchise, then players may rather go for a bigger pay check overseas than being drafted by the Force or Rebels (or another NZ franchise). A player should have the freedom to play for the team he wants to play for, if that team wants him too.
Agree with @Mackerzzzz about the loss of tribalism.
Yep have to agree,I don't see it working,I would not like to see our AB's playing for Aussie teams.
Agree with @Mackerzzzz about the loss of tribalism also.The other ideas may have merit.
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@Chris said in Super Rugby 2023:
Some interesting concepts being talked about for Super Rugby
A Super Rugby conference in Auckland has produced a number of ideas to be considered for 2024 and beyond
A player draft is being mooted by Rugby Australia and could become a televised event but it’s unlikely to be actioned by 2024
Australian teams were aligned in wanting a reduced role for the TMO and fewer stoppages
Rugby Australia is pushing for a 60-second scrum clockThe draft is an interesting idea... it may even the playing field, but kinda removes a bit of the tribalism/ regionalism from it.
I mean like does anyone want the likes of mcCaw having played for the Canes? Or Fitzy playing for the landers....
The other two ideas I like tho...
@Mackerzzzz said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Chris said in Super Rugby 2023:
Some interesting concepts being talked about for Super Rugby
A Super Rugby conference in Auckland has produced a number of ideas to be considered for 2024 and beyond
A player draft is being mooted by Rugby Australia and could become a televised event but it’s unlikely to be actioned by 2024
Australian teams were aligned in wanting a reduced role for the TMO and fewer stoppages
Rugby Australia is pushing for a 60-second scrum clockThe draft is an interesting idea... it may even the playing field, but kinda removes a bit of the tribalism/ regionalism from it.
I mean like does anyone want the likes of mcCaw having played for the Canes? Or Fitzy playing for the landers....
The other two ideas I like tho...
This bit here is what I don't like about the draft exactly as you have said ."removes a bit of the tribalism/ regionalism from it".
The other two yeah I think they have merit.
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@Chris I don't know how a draft would work (I don't follow American sports), but it sounds like a terrible idea. What's the point of developing players in a franchise's academy if that franchise can't be reasonably sure that they actually get to benefit from developing those players, if they want to? Of course, under the current system sometimes players leave, too, but it's more the exception than the rule when a player signs with another franchise before having played for the franchise that developed him.
Even worse if a NZ developed player is drafted by an Aussie franchise, and then being snapped up by the Wallabies.
If it would force players - who have always dreamt of playing for their "home franchise" - to play for another franchise, then players may rather go for a bigger pay check overseas than being drafted by the Force or Rebels (or another NZ franchise). A player should have the freedom to play for the team he wants to play for, if that team wants him too.
Agree with @Mackerzzzz about the loss of tribalism.
@Stargazer It works in the NFL/NBA because colleges develop the players and the money is bonkers. It would never work here. In Aus at least, they'd all just jump to a local League team rather than leave their friends and family.
I also don't think opening national eligibility up is much of a long term option. As much as both NZ/Aus will fight it - inevitably all players will be fully eligible from overseas. The money is in Europe and Japan - selling future earnings to pay for some salaries now just delays this.
Left it way, way too long to make Super Rugby a commercially viable comp in it's own right.
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once again i find myself on the other side of things, i think a draft could work. We use to have a draft of sorts for players, you protect a certain number (avoiding your big names going away) and then you get to pick up other to fill your ranks....its not playground rules where everyone moved around every year
it seems to me its just televising what already going on in the background....actually trying to build some hype. Players already move all around the country trying to get into teams, i feel some are overestimating how much tribalism there is in super rugby at least as far as the players go...they go where they can get paid and have the best chance of making the ABs
We've just seen it with the Highlander halfbacks, we developed more than we need given who is in front of them so they found gigs elsewhere, we'd just be talking about a show showing a bit of this rather than us just chatting about rumors we hear...and then its just announced
I know in the AFL, where the draft seems pretty successful, players can put in preferences and limitations because of things like families, its not just a case of you have to go wherever you are selected, if you'd rather take a development contract with you're local team you could
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once again i find myself on the other side of things, i think a draft could work. We use to have a draft of sorts for players, you protect a certain number (avoiding your big names going away) and then you get to pick up other to fill your ranks....its not playground rules where everyone moved around every year
it seems to me its just televising what already going on in the background....actually trying to build some hype. Players already move all around the country trying to get into teams, i feel some are overestimating how much tribalism there is in super rugby at least as far as the players go...they go where they can get paid and have the best chance of making the ABs
We've just seen it with the Highlander halfbacks, we developed more than we need given who is in front of them so they found gigs elsewhere, we'd just be talking about a show showing a bit of this rather than us just chatting about rumors we hear...and then its just announced
I know in the AFL, where the draft seems pretty successful, players can put in preferences and limitations because of things like families, its not just a case of you have to go wherever you are selected, if you'd rather take a development contract with you're local team you could
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
once again i find myself on the other side of things, i think a draft could work. We use to have a draft of sorts for players, you protect a certain number (avoiding your big names going away) and then you get to pick up other to fill your ranks....its not playground rules where everyone moved around every year
Maybe - if people want to enter the draft voluntarily. There isn't enough money in rugby to justify it.
NFL comparison:
The final pick of the NFL draft is often referred to as Mr. Irrelevant but the player still receives a $628,873 salary as part of a four-year, $3.37 million contract. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
once again i find myself on the other side of things, i think a draft could work. We use to have a draft of sorts for players, you protect a certain number (avoiding your big names going away) and then you get to pick up other to fill your ranks....its not playground rules where everyone moved around every year
Maybe - if people want to enter the draft voluntarily. There isn't enough money in rugby to justify it.
NFL comparison:
The final pick of the NFL draft is often referred to as Mr. Irrelevant but the player still receives a $628,873 salary as part of a four-year, $3.37 million contract.@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
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@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
The key point, seven outside the money, is American teams don't develop their own players. They pick them from college. So every franchise would drop their academy if there was a draft, why waste money on that?
This is really very similar to Ozzie boss trying to get a bigger slice of the NZR money pie, he's trying to get access to better players from over here
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
The key point, seven outside the money, is American teams don't develop their own players. They pick them from college. So every franchise would drop their academy if there was a draft, why waste money on that?
This is really very similar to Ozzie boss trying to get a bigger slice of the NZR money pie, he's trying to get access to better players from over here
@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
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once again i find myself on the other side of things, i think a draft could work. We use to have a draft of sorts for players, you protect a certain number (avoiding your big names going away) and then you get to pick up other to fill your ranks....its not playground rules where everyone moved around every year
it seems to me its just televising what already going on in the background....actually trying to build some hype. Players already move all around the country trying to get into teams, i feel some are overestimating how much tribalism there is in super rugby at least as far as the players go...they go where they can get paid and have the best chance of making the ABs
We've just seen it with the Highlander halfbacks, we developed more than we need given who is in front of them so they found gigs elsewhere, we'd just be talking about a show showing a bit of this rather than us just chatting about rumors we hear...and then its just announced
I know in the AFL, where the draft seems pretty successful, players can put in preferences and limitations because of things like families, its not just a case of you have to go wherever you are selected, if you'd rather take a development contract with you're local team you could
The issue with super rugby is
-it's a 2nd level competition. With test rugby one level above it. Test rugby pays the biggest money. And earn the biggest TV fees
-Top level non test players (and top level test players too) can often earn more money overseas
-The best test players are not evenly split between teams. And in recent years this has become worse in NZ.
-Aust is much weaker than NZA draft is one idea that should be considered. Would a draft help to even up the players? And how many NZ players would need (or be allowed) to move to Aust. And would it just lead to more players heading overseas. How would it impact on test rugby etc
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@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
@Kiwiwomble father / son rules? Is that kinda like how we bought down Stephen's son Connor GB down from wellington?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
The key point, seven outside the money, is American teams don't develop their own players. They pick them from college. So every franchise would drop their academy if there was a draft, why waste money on that?
This is really very similar to Ozzie boss trying to get a bigger slice of the NZR money pie, he's trying to get access to better players from over here
@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2023:
he's trying to get access to better players from over here
Unfortunately this might be needed if Aust stay with 5 teams. Otherwise Aust team won't be able to compete.
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2023:
he's trying to get access to better players from over here
Unfortunately this might be needed if Aust stay with 5 teams. Otherwise Aust team won't be able to compete.
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@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
I can't believe that drafts will ever be looked at unless they want players to go to NRL or NH! It works in AFL etc because if you don't like where you drafted too, you got no comp overseas to bail out to. Imagine you a young kid coming out of school say in Qld and you get told, pack your bags and go to Dunedin, or even worse the opposite
. Would then NRL ,Japan etc start to look very attractive?
Is any of this relevant? According to Hamish McLennan aren't Aussies going it alone after next year? -
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
I can't believe that drafts will ever be looked at unless they want players to go to NRL or NH! It works in AFL etc because if you don't like where you drafted too, you got no comp overseas to bail out to. Imagine you a young kid coming out of school say in Qld and you get told, pack your bags and go to Dunedin, or even worse the opposite
. Would then NRL ,Japan etc start to look very attractive?
Is any of this relevant? According to Hamish McLennan aren't Aussies going it alone after next year?@Dan54 if we think our players would give up on their all blacks dream that easily then we have more problem then i though, as i say...players are literally going to dunedin right now looking for higher honors
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@Dan54 if we think our players would give up on their all blacks dream that easily then we have more problem then i though, as i say...players are literally going to dunedin right now looking for higher honors
I think you're missing the point. A draft could potentially force players to play for a franchise they don't really want to play for, because they prefer playing for their home (or another) franchise. This could even be the case if the franchise that developed him (or that other franchise) does want to sign him. The Highlanders players you are referring to didn't go because they were forced to, although sometimes circumstances played a role, such as being overlooked by their home franchise or not getting enough game time.
