All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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We are so much less than the sum of our parts
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Congrats to Ireland. Dominated.
As others have said the ABs are a total mess all the way around.
We have a forward pack that is as soft as butter with the exception of Bower, Whitelock and sometimes Scott Barrett.
We don't have a proper 10 in either Beauden or Richie that drives the team around field.
We don't have an effective attacking pattern we can go to. We continue with this pod rubbish and biffing it out to a forward 10 metres from the breakdown.
Our defence coach and defence system is in it's 6th season and keeps showing the same failings. 6th season with this defence coach and system is nuts - how to have that sort of job security.
Our coach/selectors refuses to actually drop any senior players from the starting side regardless of performance or to fit a discernible pattern of play.
The culture of the team appears to be completely fucked. Codie Taylor was quoted as saying how 'Ardie is the best player in the world' in relation to the substitute error - they believe their own bullshit - it's this echo-chamber and no one is willing to ask the hard questions. They shrug every loss off as a compliment to the opposition and good for world rugby and then forget about it until it happens again a couple of tests later.
It's no wonder in test rugby we get exposed every other test.
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Congrats to Ireland. Dominated.
As others have said the ABs are a total mess all the way around.
We have a forward pack that is as soft as butter with the exception of Bower, Whitelock and sometimes Scott Barrett.
We don't have a proper 10 in either Beauden or Richie that drives the team around field.
We don't have an effective attacking pattern we can go to. We continue with this pod rubbish and biffing it out to a forward 10 metres from the breakdown.
Our defence coach and defence system is in it's 6th season and keeps showing the same failings. 6th season with this defence coach and system is nuts - how to have that sort of job security.
Our coach/selectors refuses to actually drop any senior players from the starting side regardless of performance or to fit a discernible pattern of play.
The culture of the team appears to be completely fucked. Codie Taylor was quoted as saying how 'Ardie is the best player in the world' in relation to the substitute error - they believe their own bullshit - it's this echo-chamber and no one is willing to ask the hard questions. They shrug every loss off as a compliment to the opposition and good for world rugby and then forget about it until it happens again a couple of tests later.
It's no wonder in test rugby we get exposed every other test.
@KiwiMurph I laughed over that Taylor comment. It’s like the “not far off, just a few tweaks” comments we always hear. They are delusional.
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Clean out time for the 3rd test. (welcome to my fantasy world)
Foster and his entire coaching group fired, replaced by Scott Robertson with Joe Schmidt kept on.Team.
15 Jordie (there for kicking game but better improve decision making pronto - he takes all line kicks following penalties)
14 Will Jordan or Reece
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 Barrett last chance or to be replaced by Perofeta (Beauden, show us you can kick accurately in play - you've only had years to improve this aspect of your game)
9 Smith (Fakatava as sub)
8 Sotutu (fuck off Ardie you ruck shy highlights reel)
7 Papalii
6 Akira (bring the hurt Akira or you are to be replaced by Grace)
5 Whitelock (captain)
4 Barrett
3 Fletcher Newell / Tamaiti Williams
2 Samisoni
1 BowerNone of this will happen of course.
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@KiwiMurph I laughed over that Taylor comment. It’s like the “not far off, just a few tweaks” comments we always hear. They are delusional.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph I laughed over that Taylor comment. It’s like the “not far off, just a few tweaks” comments we always hear. They are delusional.
Taylor would say that.
Because the alternative, that major changes are needed, means he is dropped from the starting 15. -
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt
Players have just got to be more careful. I saw it and first thought was a definite red card.
@Winger said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt
Players have just got to be more careful. I saw it and first thought was a definite red card.
He had one step to adjust his body position - maybe less than step one as he was already moving in one direction when Ringrose altered direction.
I'm not disputing the red card under the current rules and interpretations of mitigating factors.
The issue is putting all the emphasis on the tackler to prevent head contact when the attacking players actions are part of the equation that results in accidental head contact being a yellow/red card offence.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph I laughed over that Taylor comment. It’s like the “not far off, just a few tweaks” comments we always hear. They are delusional.
Taylor would say that.
Because the alternative, that major changes are needed, means he is dropped from the starting 15.@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph I laughed over that Taylor comment. It’s like the “not far off, just a few tweaks” comments we always hear. They are delusional.
Taylor would say that.
Because the alternative, that major changes are needed, means he is dropped from the starting 15.Funnily enough it's what Irish said last week, believe a few laughed then too.
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This really is utter shit. It's a calamity of bullshit from the word go. Terrible decision making, absolutely no structure, and some sort of rancid belief that if we just keep throwing miracle balls one will stick and it'll be a magic moment.
No. That is NOT how you compete, let alone win in tests like this. The Ireland defence is far far too strong for that. It's heavily structured, incredibly well drilled, and it doesn't fall for bullshit.
Peyper, has quite rightly, ref'd us off the park.
As is so often the case, the main issue has been leadership. From everywhere. We miss Sam Whitelock so much, he wouldn't stand for this shit. Cane, where are you? What are you doing? Are you even trying to get this shit back under control? It certainly doesn't fucking look like it.
Oh, and the icing. The absolute icing on the cake. All Black management are so fucking thick they didn't know that once Ardie was off, he can't come back in. So he should never have been taken off. In an evening chock full of sackable offences, nothing is more than that one.
Fucking idiots.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ardie was off, he can't come back in
On reflection, somebody had to go when they got back to contested scrums. Not sure of the timing, but one of AS or DP was sitting out the game.
What was fucked up (my broken record) was that they replaced a prop when there was no need as they had GO scrums.
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Clean out time for the 3rd test. (welcome to my fantasy world)
Foster and his entire coaching group fired, replaced by Scott Robertson with Joe Schmidt kept on.Team.
15 Jordie (there for kicking game but better improve decision making pronto - he takes all line kicks following penalties)
14 Will Jordan or Reece
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 Barrett last chance or to be replaced by Perofeta (Beauden, show us you can kick accurately in play - you've only had years to improve this aspect of your game)
9 Smith (Fakatava as sub)
8 Sotutu (fuck off Ardie you ruck shy highlights reel)
7 Papalii
6 Akira (bring the hurt Akira or you are to be replaced by Grace)
5 Whitelock (captain)
4 Barrett
3 Fletcher Newell / Tamaiti Williams
2 Samisoni
1 BowerNone of this will happen of course.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Clean out time for the 3rd test. (welcome to my fantasy world)
Foster and his entire coaching group fired, replaced by Scott Robertson with Joe Schmidt kept on.Team.
15 Jordie (there for kicking game but better improve decision making pronto - he takes all line kicks following penalties)
14 Will Jordan or Reece
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 Barrett last chance or to be replaced by Perofeta (Beauden, show us you can kick accurately in play - you've only had years to improve this aspect of your game)
9 Smith (Fakatava as sub)
8 Sotutu (fuck off Ardie you ruck shy highlights reel)
7 Papalii
6 Akira (bring the hurt Akira or you are to be replaced by Grace)
5 Whitelock (captain)
4 Barrett
3 Fletcher Newell / Tamaiti Williams
2 Samisoni
1 BowerNone of this will happen of course.
And then you pick one of the most disappointing players in NZ rugby at 6. Robertson would never select Akira Ioane, the guy is a dud.
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@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ardie was off, he can't come back in
On reflection, somebody had to go when they got back to contested scrums. Not sure of the timing, but one of AS or DP was sitting out the game.
What was fucked up (my broken record) was that they replaced a prop when there was no need as they had GO scrums.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ardie was off, he can't come back in
On reflection, somebody had to go when they got back to contested scrums. Not sure of the timing, but one of AS or DP was sitting out the game.
What was fucked up (my broken record) was that they replaced a prop when there was no need as they had GO scrums.
As much as we can sit in our armchairs and critique what they did it would have been confusing as fuck on the field trying to figure out all the permutations.
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Fostered Out
What will it take for the New Zealand rugby board to cancel Foster’s contract and pay him out? Forget the World Cup. There is no way they’re going to win that anyway.
But if the Bledisloe Cup goes across the Ta$man this year, after a near 20-year run, the clamour for change will be hard to ignore. And losing the Bledisloe looks completely on the cards right now, wouldn’t you say?
Ask yourself: What influence has Foster brought to the All Blacks under his charge, other than a propensity for losing every second game? What stamp has he made on one of the world’s top sporting brands other than completely tarnishing it? As others have said, there appears to be no structure, no logical game plan, no ability to deal with rush defence - just a reliance on luck and individual pieces of brilliance.
Of course, Foster would say in his defence that the All Blacks have to deal with a disrupted schedule due to the ongoing pandemic, but then so has everybody else. He might also say that NZ rugby, due to the drift of talent overseas, does not have the depth it once did. But the Kiwis in the Irish team, dismissed locally as journeymen, were passed over before they drifted offshore for better opportunities. That they are shining in a different environment must say something about the paucity of ideas at home and the attraction of a better set-up elsewhere.
Putting aside individuals, one might also say that all this is an inevitable result of globalisation of talent and the arrival of a tipping point in the ongoing export to the north of NZ rugby intellectual and playing capital. But then that overlooks the fact that some world class coaching talent remains on local shores, including a six times winning Super rugby coach and the recently returned Kiwi who masterminded Ireland’s renaissance.
Perhaps Foster’s strongest defence is the fact that margins in international rugby have tightened. The North no longer lags the south by default, as can be seen in the clean sweep by Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland in their return serves against NZ, Australia, South Africa and Argentina this weekend. The days of the RC sides being automatically fitter, stronger, faster and more resilient and resourceful are over.
But then that is an even stronger argument for a world-class coaching set-up at home featuring coaches who are innovative, forward-thinking, globally attuned and able to get the very best out of the playing resources we have. We can’t control pandemics, the strength of the opposition, the vagaries of the rule book, the variability of referees, the globalisation of the game - we CAN ensure we have a coaching and management structure that provides a hothouse for talent and ideas and preserves and enhances the All Black brand.
Again, I come back to my first question: What will it take for the NZ rugby authorities to grasp that all of that is now at risk?
@MrDenmore I don’t think the World Cup is out of the question. It’s a tournament that really doesn’t have much bearing on what happens prior to it starting.
Teams that have made the final or even won it have had varied success in the year or two leading up.
And in these tournaments, unpredictable stuff happens that can turn for better or worst.
I’m more in the camp that there are too many factors at play to judge the here and now and equate that to success or failure at a tournament next year.
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@MrDenmore I don’t think the World Cup is out of the question. It’s a tournament that really doesn’t have much bearing on what happens prior to it starting.
Teams that have made the final or even won it have had varied success in the year or two leading up.
And in these tournaments, unpredictable stuff happens that can turn for better or worst.
I’m more in the camp that there are too many factors at play to judge the here and now and equate that to success or failure at a tournament next year.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MrDenmore I don’t think the World Cup is out of the question. It’s a tournament that really doesn’t have much bearing on what happens prior to it starting.
Teams that have made the final or even won it have had varied success in the year or two leading up.
And in these tournaments, unpredictable stuff happens that can turn for better or worst.
I’m more in the camp that there are too many factors at play to judge the here and now and equate that to success or failure at a tournament next year.
It's quite weird that lets say Fozzie wins next week, we retain the Bled, and the Rugby Championship, then head to the RWC and win that. Fozzie would have won everything on offer, the big cups each year and then the RWC. And he'll likely still have the worst record of AB coaches and be considered a failure.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MrDenmore I don’t think the World Cup is out of the question. It’s a tournament that really doesn’t have much bearing on what happens prior to it starting.
Teams that have made the final or even won it have had varied success in the year or two leading up.
And in these tournaments, unpredictable stuff happens that can turn for better or worst.
I’m more in the camp that there are too many factors at play to judge the here and now and equate that to success or failure at a tournament next year.
It's quite weird that lets say Fozzie wins next week, we retain the Bled, and the Rugby Championship, then head to the RWC and win that. Fozzie would have won everything on offer, the big cups each year and then the RWC. And he'll likely still have the worst record of AB coaches and be considered a failure.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MrDenmore I don’t think the World Cup is out of the question. It’s a tournament that really doesn’t have much bearing on what happens prior to it starting.
Teams that have made the final or even won it have had varied success in the year or two leading up.
And in these tournaments, unpredictable stuff happens that can turn for better or worst.
I’m more in the camp that there are too many factors at play to judge the here and now and equate that to success or failure at a tournament next year.
It's quite weird that lets say Fozzie wins next week, we retain the Bled, and the Rugby Championship, then head to the RWC and win that. Fozzie would have won everything on offer, the big cups each year and then the RWC. And he'll likely still have the worst record of AB coaches and be considered a failure.
If that happens then there will pigs flying everywhere in the air.
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Nothing like an intelligent and compassionate debate from devoted supporters backing their their beloved team win or lose. Truly inspiring for one team for the next match.
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Nothing like an intelligent and compassionate debate from devoted supporters backing their their beloved team win or lose. Truly inspiring for one team for the next match.
We should all just pretend we won! Condescending, pompous nonsense.
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Clean out time for the 3rd test. (welcome to my fantasy world)
Foster and his entire coaching group fired, replaced by Scott Robertson with Joe Schmidt kept on.Team.
15 Jordie (there for kicking game but better improve decision making pronto - he takes all line kicks following penalties)
14 Will Jordan or Reece
13 Reiko
12 Goodhue
11 Clarke
10 Barrett last chance or to be replaced by Perofeta (Beauden, show us you can kick accurately in play - you've only had years to improve this aspect of your game)
9 Smith (Fakatava as sub)
8 Sotutu (fuck off Ardie you ruck shy highlights reel)
7 Papalii
6 Akira (bring the hurt Akira or you are to be replaced by Grace)
5 Whitelock (captain)
4 Barrett
3 Fletcher Newell / Tamaiti Williams
2 Samisoni
1 BowerNone of this will happen of course.
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My biggest disappointment in this team is their inability to chance their arm when we have ball in hand. How many times have we gone a couple phases and then aimlessly kicked the ball away? It’s almost ingrained into this team atm, there is no innovation at all.
How about instead of running through the motions we actually chance our arm a little and use the talent at our disposal. The reason the likes of Ardie, Reiko, Jordan, Reece etc are in this side is for their ability to cut teams to shreds, yet we hardly ever spin it wide.
All we are doing at the moment is handing over possession to the other team and then wondering why we are spending large spells of the game defending.
Keep doing the same shit and we’ll keep getting the same results.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ardie was off, he can't come back in
On reflection, somebody had to go when they got back to contested scrums. Not sure of the timing, but one of AS or DP was sitting out the game.
What was fucked up (my broken record) was that they replaced a prop when there was no need as they had GO scrums.
As much as we can sit in our armchairs and critique what they did it would have been confusing as fuck on the field trying to figure out all the permutations.
@Nepia ha yeah I was sitting there last night thinking what a clusterfuck.
Didnt the ref say we had to send off a loose forward? DP was already off, we arent gonna send off our captain (as much as some would prefer) AS was the only one.
I do find that rule ridiculous, rugby is a contest, and the forward exchange pivotal to it, not to mention the safety aspect, yet they will happily allow a scrum to be underpowered by forcing the team to remove a forward if a prop is binned, rather than let them choose who to remove (ie a wing more than likely)
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My biggest disappointment in this team is their inability to chance their arm when we have ball in hand. How many times have we gone a couple phases and then aimlessly kicked the ball away? It’s almost ingrained into this team atm, there is no innovation at all.
How about instead of running through the motions we actually chance our arm a little and use the talent at our disposal. The reason the likes of Ardie, Reiko, Jordan, Reece etc are in this side is for their ability to cut teams to shreds, yet we hardly ever spin it wide.
All we are doing at the moment is handing over possession to the other team and then wondering why we are spending large spells of the game defending.
Keep doing the same shit and we’ll keep getting the same results.
@Canes4life Wide pass to a flat standing forward from a ruck that gets picked off straight away - does my head in.
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@Canes4life Wide pass to a flat standing forward from a ruck that gets picked off straight away - does my head in.
@Tim it will work eventually if we do it enough times....
