All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating. -
@ARHS to clarify the brain explosion is why did he choose to replace Andre and nor Dalton? Ardie was our most effective loose, Dalton had been very average this game.Did he see an issue with Ardiie? Replacing Ardie is the brain explosion I am referring to.
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS to clarify the brain explosion is why did he choose to replace Andre and nor Dalton? Ardie was our most effective loose, Dalton had been very average this game.Did he see an issue with Ardiie? Replacing Ardie is the brain explosion I am referring to.
Dalton was off for Ofa.
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What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.@Darren said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.Agreed. This is not a great AB team, but we shouldn't be this poor. I just feel like the team is less than the sum of the individual parts right now
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
Spot on. The AB’s need more variation and finesse in attack rather just relying on Smith’s cutout passes which the Irish have learnt how to combat from first test. They rely too much on individual brilliance.
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
Spot on. The AB’s need more variation and finesse in attack rather just relying on Smith’s cutout passes which the Irish have learnt how to combat from first test. They rely too much on individual brilliance.
It truly is the height of arrogance to assume that the same tactic that worked a little bit in T1, then was discussed ad nauseum on every fucking rugby forum on the interweb for an entire week, would work just as well when trotted out for T2.
It's so inane it's mind-boggling.
And it's not even that clever to begin with - dude with good pass mixes up the distance of said pass - fucking genius.
As I admitted somewhere, I haven't seen the game or even a full replay. But watching the highlights, all I see from us are box kicks, cut-out passes, and stupid fucking pods where the play is telegraphed and caught static then run straight, only to die in the tackle.
All the clips I see of Ireland, they seem to be using this weird running technique that I haven't seen in ages, where they run at these things called "gaps" (sometimes also known as "all black props") by running at "angles" with multiple passing options. Sometimes they even change the direction of these angles over multiple phases, it's truly quite perplexing!
Anyway, onwards and all that!
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
It's the rule-book. AB's had it right and argued it. The officials got it wrong. How on earth is that a brain explosion?
Can you point out where?
There's considerable confusion regarding the interplay of Law 3.19, 3.20 and 3.30
Law 3.19: If a front-row player is temporarily suspended, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may not return until the period of suspension ends, or to act as a replacement.
Tu'ungafasi was temporarily suspended. Scrum called, so Ta'avao comes on and Papali'i has to leave to keep the numbers at 14 for the suspension.
Ta'avao is the replacement player.
Papali'i is the nominated player (#1)
Ta'avao gets red carded.
Law 3.20: If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.
Ross comes on for the scrum and Savea leaves.
Ross is a replacement player.
Ardie is nominated player #2. He can act as a replacement.
Suspension served, Tu'ungafasi comes back on.
Law 3.30: If a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area, except to comply Law 3.19 or 3.20, and only if the player has been medically cleared to do so and does so within the required time of leaving the field of play.
So Ta'avao is the temporary replacement. Tu'ungafasi can come back on to keep contested scrums. He does so at the end of his yellow card suspension and Ross departs the field. Papali'i must stay off as Ta'avao has been sent off. Ardie should be able to come back on now Ross has left the field.
These clowns (the officials) are supposed to know this shit backwards.
@number9 Read @antipodean's post above, will explain it to you. Not a brain explosion, fuckup from the officials. Foster/Shand were correct.
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@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
Well, that's all 7 million of us done for so. Wait till I get my hands on that salesman - he's a lot to answer for.
I met a slightly rude New Zealander once in Russia in 1981. Haven't talked with him since.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them.
What do you expect of a nation that decide neutrality was best during WW2?
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them.
What do you expect of a nation that decide neutrality was best during WW2?
And yet still secretly worked with the allies through their G2 department, allowed Allied military accidentally cross over the border in NI, arrested and jailed German spies who landed in Ireland, interrogated them and even helped crack essential codes that the Americans and British could not, according to the heads of OSS and MI5.
Very neutral.
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@canefan yeah keyboard warriors are a different breed (regardless of country of origin...)
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Irish have the best sense of humour in the world, fucking love going to Ireland. So much that I used to sneak over when in the forces at times when you weren’t allowed to travel to Ireland without permission ‘cos of the troubles. Going over for a Guiness and a good craic was not going to cut it as a reason with Intel and Security!
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The few Irish supporters I have met were great guys. And love the ABs
I’ve even met some Poms I’ve gotten on with in real life.
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The few Irish supporters I have met were great guys. And love the ABs
I’ve even met some Poms I’ve gotten on with in real life.
Shit I even married one, but she's says she's Cornish but not English
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
wonder if Razor would be happy to work with/under Schmidt?
May be wrong, but among all the posts I've read in the last few days, there was a link which pretty much said it was the top job or nothing for Razor.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
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What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.@Darren said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.that doesn't give enough credit to league, they often at least have a few players in motion and know how to tackle
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph interesting how he comments about some of our players turning thier back on the attack...thats something you teach kids from a young age never to do.
Seems some of the basics skills are missing, or guys who are good defenders in thier super teams, turn into average ones at this level...maybe the defensive system is the issue?
Our poor defence is a huge part of our issue, we arent making enough tackles and putting pressure on opposition to make errors, providing counter attack opportunities for us...although now we would probably just kick it back to them anyway.
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
@No-Quarter LF was all lost at sea, he needed to get tangled up with the outside one to highlight it, but it is something they do very well right now with those screens and lazy runners.
