All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should remember -
Can't complain about the results but I was hoping Razor would play Leicester at centre and Ennor at wing rather than visca versca.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can't complain about the results but I was hoping Razor would play Leicester at centre and Ennor at wing rather than visca versca.
Both Razor and the AB coaches seemed to have it that way eh, was really puzzling as to what us observers were missing there.
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My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should remember@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should rememberPretty sure he was a wing - think he even covered fullback?
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My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.
@No-Quarter Like RTS in the final of SR? And that is the only evidence we have......
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My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.
NQ - you seem to have a terrible downer on Richie - rabbit in headlights, still needs Beaudy as training wheels, etc, etc.
I think he's vastly better than you give him credit for.
Beauden and RTS had a good opportunity to display their talents against a team bashing them into submission in the Soup final.
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@No-Quarter Like RTS in the final of SR? And that is the only evidence we have......
@Old-Samurai-Jack Snap!
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.
NQ - you seem to have a terrible downer on Richie - rabbit in headlights, still needs Beaudy as training wheels, etc, etc.
I think he's vastly better than you give him credit for.
Beauden and RTS had a good opportunity to display their talents against a team bashing them into submission in the Soup final.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
My point about both Havili and Mo'unga is that they don't handle the physical teams well, and come RWC time most teams gameplan against us is to try and bash us into submission. Those two starting would be cannon fodder. Players like Beauden, Goodhue, Tupaea and RTS are much better equipped to deal with that.
NQ - you seem to have a terrible downer on Richie - rabbit in headlights, still needs Beaudy as training wheels, etc, etc.
I think he's vastly better than you give him credit for.
Beauden and RTS had a good opportunity to display their talents against a team bashing them into submission in the Soup final.
Beauden outside his half - deadly. But his panicked moments that sprang up under pressure in his own half during SR were worrying. At least they're only confined to half the field I guess.
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@Chris-B I'm down on Richie because every year he carves up in SR, and every year he can't translate to test rugby. The Adam Thomson of first fives.
RTS was fine in the final until he went off injured at half time.
And the Crusaders didn't bash the Blues into submission, they played a smart game controlling possession and territory in the rain to nulify the Blues strengths. As was mentioned a lot at the time, they are a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan methodically.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should rememberPretty sure he was a wing - think he even covered fullback?
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should rememberPretty sure he was a wing - think he even covered fullback?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Didn’t he start at centre (below international level)?
I only recall him as an excellent wing for the Crusaders.
When he first appeared he made a couple of breaks from centre and was anointed a great prospect.
One of the one eyed crew should rememberPretty sure he was a wing - think he even covered fullback?
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@Chris-B I'm down on Richie because every year he carves up in SR, and every year he can't translate to test rugby. The Adam Thomson of first fives.
RTS was fine in the final until he went off injured at half time.
And the Crusaders didn't bash the Blues into submission, they played a smart game controlling possession and territory in the rain to nulify the Blues strengths. As was mentioned a lot at the time, they are a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan methodically.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B I'm down on Richie because every year he carves up in SR, and every year he can't translate to test rugby. The Adam Thomson of first fives.
RTS was fine in the final until he went off injured at half time.
And the Crusaders didn't bash the Blues into submission, they played a smart game controlling possession and territory in the rain to nulify the Blues strengths. As was mentioned a lot at the time, they are a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan methodically.
The Adam Thomson of first fives
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@Chris-B I'm down on Richie because every year he carves up in SR, and every year he can't translate to test rugby. The Adam Thomson of first fives.
RTS was fine in the final until he went off injured at half time.
And the Crusaders didn't bash the Blues into submission, they played a smart game controlling possession and territory in the rain to nulify the Blues strengths. As was mentioned a lot at the time, they are a very well coached team that sticks to their gameplan methodically.
@No-Quarter The Blues got dominated in the collisions all night - not surprisingly BB and RTS didn't have many answers.
On Richie, I just disagree - pretty much with your entire premise.
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@Chris-B yeah, I know, Mo'unga is a bit of a hero to all Crusader fans, and I can see why given how many titles he's delivered. Let's hope he can finally make that step up, as Beauden is a flawed first five and we could really use a 10 that can take control of a game when the going gets tough. Oh how we miss DC, he was fucking huge in the RWC15 finals.
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@Chris-B yeah, I know, Mo'unga is a bit of a hero to all Crusader fans, and I can see why given how many titles he's delivered. Let's hope he can finally make that step up, as Beauden is a flawed first five and we could really use a 10 that can take control of a game when the going gets tough. Oh how we miss DC, he was fucking huge in the RWC15 finals.
@No-Quarter The Fern is way too harsh on both.
We saw a lot of the opposition at the weekend.....
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim be annoyed if they drop Tupaea for Havili, Tupaea earned another chance to start, Havili offers versatility so is actually a good option off the bench.
Would love to see RTS in there somewhere.
He may be better off in the All Black XV if they don't want to give him any minutes in this series or the Rugby Championship. The fact they brought in the hopeless Ennor tells me they don't have too much faith in him yet which is a bummer, he could not have done any worse than Ennor.
I’m hoping that Ennor’s performance has finally convinced them that his ceiling is Super.
I'd love to see him move back to the wing.
Why? So he can miss tackles and drop the ball a bit wider out?
He was a bloody good winger. Moving him to centre has "ruined his career".
Bound to have done.
Only about 15 (?) games in midfield at SR level wasn't it and then he was thrown in there at Test level. Wrecked his confidence. :fishing_pole:
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Havili seems to have taken the main brunt of the ABs failing at the end of the season last year while others have been more "teflon-like" in regards to fan dissatisfaction. QT didn't fire a shot at the end of last season either. Havili has shown he is a quality 2nd five at the beginning of 2021 test season and in the final stages of 2022 SR where he was the complete package.
I am not sure he is the best in combination with BB though.......Yeah, it's kinda strange how Tupaea is all of a sudden to the manor born, after playing well against a crumbling Ireland, but DH is dismissed because he was only good against Aus.. Yet QT amounted to sweet fuck all last year too. I'm pretty confident even Bridge would have looked a star last week.
Wrong, RTS is to the manor born, and come the RWC he'll be a lock at 12 partnering Rieko. In the meantime QT offers a lot more than anyone else.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Wrong, RTS is to the manor born, and come the RWC he'll be a lock at 12 partnering Rieko
They'll only go into the second row if they put on loads of weight and get too slow for the midfield
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Well you judge QT on jis last outing in black, he has earnt another shot.
Havili had chances last year, maybe he was fatigued with the midfield load, but did struggle when the heat came on, so just cos he played well in the back end of super does that mean he should move ahead of QT in black?
I know the coaches are big on rewarding encumbants not "punishing" them for injuries (illness) but it shouldn't be about being fair, it isn't school boy rugby anymore, you start the best 15 you can each week.
That said, I expect the coaches had a plan for the midfield, covid butt fucked that, so they will no doubt fall back on that plan, which I expect will see DH and/or JG start in the midfield...hopefully not together as that means JG is at 13 and unless he was keeping his powder dry at super, he appears to have lost another yard of pace that he couldn't afford to lose.
QT impressed with his composure and think that benefitted BB a fair bit last week. Makes you realise the importance of 10/12 partnership and recall DC saying how much easier Ma'a made his life at 10.
Just thinking aloud, but perhaps this is an area the selectors are looking at. Maybe they see BB & QT/JG as a pairing and Ritchie & Havili as another?
My guess is this WE it's be QT starting and DH on the bench with Ritchie.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The question is do we see Havs as our 12 come WC, clearly the Fern does not think so. QT, ALB, RTS, Goodhue are better options and should be getting the time there. I am slightly more concerned about 13 at the moment as RI is turning into Aaron Smith in that there is daylight between him and the next player. They missed a trick not bringing Sullivan into the squad IMO.
They’ve got Goodhue in the squad as a midfield option.
Ioane is still only 25 so has years of rugby ahead of him. The more game time the better in my view. The odd rest here or there, but if we get 103 tests out of him like Nugget, then that is a very good thing for AB rugby.
I may not have expressed my concern properly, I am very happy with RI but what happens if he gets injured. My concern is his backup. Remember the 2003 WC when Tana got injured, didn't they use Panadol or someone else and it was a bit of a disaster?
I guess they do have ALB that I am forgetting is a good 13.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The question is do we see Havs as our 12 come WC, clearly the Fern does not think so. QT, ALB, RTS, Goodhue are better options and should be getting the time there. I am slightly more concerned about 13 at the moment as RI is turning into Aaron Smith in that there is daylight between him and the next player. They missed a trick not bringing Sullivan into the squad IMO.
They’ve got Goodhue in the squad as a midfield option.
Ioane is still only 25 so has years of rugby ahead of him. The more game time the better in my view. The odd rest here or there, but if we get 103 tests out of him like Nugget, then that is a very good thing for AB rugby.
I may not have expressed my concern properly, I am very happy with RI but what happens if he gets injured. My concern is his backup. Remember the 2003 WC when Tana got injured, didn't they use Panadol or someone else and it was a bit of a disaster?
I guess they do have ALB that I am forgetting is a good 13.
They definitely used the wrong fullback at centre in that 2003 semi-final. They should’ve played Mils there who had at least played there during the 2003 super season. Rangi had not.
Anyway, I think we will be okay there if the unthinkable happens. Halfback is still a massive work in progress.
