All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Duluth I'm with you in that I think our players are too good for Ireland at home, despite our obvious issues under Foster. The fact Ireland only managed to score 23 points and beat us by 11 despite our red card and two yellows speaks volumes really, they just don't have enough points in them if we keep 15 players on the field.
Almost all their points were scored when they had the same number of men as us. (They had a card too.)
But we won't be beaten because they score a lot. We will be beaten by not scoring many ourselves. That's how Ireland have won all the other times.
I'm expecting them to be far less adventurous. They literally gave us the ball a lot in the first test, costing them pretty much the margin of victory. They have had a good look at our attack, and with QT and ST out it is even less penetrative than before, and won't be scared of holding on.
It all comes down to whether the ABs can hold their passes under pressure, and how much ball they kick away. If the passes stick and they give up the kick-and-hope game, the men in black will win comfortably. If they get the dropsies, and if they kick away most of the possession once they haven't made an immediate break-through, then they will lose.
Edit: I don't make hard predictions with Foster's teams. I learned many, many years ago that it is the way to heartache. They play well or dreadfully, apparently at random.
@Chester-Draws be good not to give up points so early again too.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Taukei’aho didn't have the impact in the Ireland tests that he had last year. I can also understand them not starting Coles, who hasn't played much at all, this year. So in that light, starting Taylor makes a lot of sense. I don't think he's been as bad as people are posting here.
Yep almost seems some players are more effective against super defences etc huh Star?
You clearly didn't pay any attention to Taylor or Sami' in the last two games (or in all the games last year for that matter). I can therefore only conclude you aren't you aren't a true rugby man.
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Taukei’aho didn't have the impact in the Ireland tests that he had last year. I can also understand them not starting Coles, who hasn't played much at all, this year. So in that light, starting Taylor makes a lot of sense. I don't think he's been as bad as people are posting here.
Yep almost seems some players are more effective against super defences etc huh Star?
You clearly didn't pay any attention to Taylor or Sami' in the last two games (or in all the games last year for that matter). I can therefore only conclude you aren't you aren't a true rugby man.
Mate, I only trying to work out why he not there, and I thinking only reason is there maybe concern with some part of his game?
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@Chester-Draws be good not to give up points so early again too.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Chester-Draws be good not to give up points so early again too.
Amen, would make for a little more relaxed viewing without giving a team as good as them a 7 point start.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
NZ TAB odds:
NZ $1.25
IRE $4.00
Draw $21.009 point spread.
Well there seems to be a few people on TSF picking the AB's to lose
Time for them to make same easy money. Bet big on Ireland. Post receipts.
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
NZ TAB odds:
NZ $1.25
IRE $4.00
Draw $21.009 point spread.
Well there seems to be a few people on TSF picking the AB's to lose
Time for them to make same easy money. Bet big on Ireland. Post receipts.
I'm more interested in seeing receipts from those people who think $1.25 is worth the risk.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Chester-Draws be good not to give up points so early again too.
Amen, would make for a little more relaxed viewing without giving a team as good as them a 7 point start.
@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?
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@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?
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@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?
The two starts were carbon copies almost
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?
The two starts were carbon copies almost
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 we gave up points early in the 1st test too didn't we?
The two starts were carbon copies almost
Only 2nd test was even quicker, I almost just shrugged and went oh yeah? here we go again, but we didn't go again lol
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Apparently Foster said in an interview after the game ‘we haven’t become a bad team overnight’ Yeah it’s taken the couple of years with you in charge!
@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny
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@taniwharugby Yes. The ABs need to show intent and start strongly for once in this series.
@Bovidae tbf I guess we have never been quick out of the blocks, which was fine when we had the quality we had years ago, when no one could really keep up with us in the final quarter.
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@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny
Yeah it would be more correct after two awful performances last year, after the win in the first Irish test to say ‘We haven’t become a great team overnight!’ Yup that’s why we are ranked 4th
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- Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 45 caps
- Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 9 caps
- Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 59 caps
- Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 32 caps
- James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 45 caps
- Peter O'Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 86 caps
- Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 42 caps
- Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary's College) 19 caps
- Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 19 caps
- Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary's College) 107 caps CAPTAIN
- James Lowe (Leinster) 14 caps
- Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 39 caps
- Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 59 caps
- Mack Hansen (Connacht) 5 caps
- Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 22 caps
Reserves:
- Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 27 caps
- Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 117 caps
- Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 24 caps
- Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena) 7 caps
- Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 29 caps
- Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 98 caps
- Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 34 caps
- Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 97 caps
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
- Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 45 caps
- Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 9 caps
- Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 59 caps
- Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 32 caps
- James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 45 caps
- Peter O'Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 86 caps
- Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 42 caps
- Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary's College) 19 caps
- Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 19 caps
- Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary's College) 107 caps CAPTAIN
- James Lowe (Leinster) 14 caps
- Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 39 caps
- Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 59 caps
- Mack Hansen (Connacht) 5 caps
- Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 22 caps
Reserves:
- Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 27 caps
- Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 117 caps
- Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 24 caps
- Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena) 7 caps
- Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 29 caps
- Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 98 caps
- Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 34 caps
- Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 97 caps
That's a good looking bloody line up too. Is Henshaw as good at 13 as 12?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny
Yeah it would be more correct after two awful performances last year, after the win in the first Irish test to say ‘We haven’t become a great team overnight!’ Yup that’s why we are ranked 4th
@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
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@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
People rubbish the WR rankings, and I think that RWC shouldn’t be weighted as it is, but the decline under Foster is easy to see on that line
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
People rubbish the WR rankings, and I think that RWC shouldn’t be weighted as it is, but the decline under Foster is easy to see on that line
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
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@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
I agree, I’d love to see how it went with the RWC weighting removed (only added in so there is almost no way a RWC winner not be ranked 1 after the final) as that would be a better indication of actual relative performance.
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@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting
It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Danny, did you back the appointment of Fozzie originally?
Do you think we need Change now?
The frustrating thing about Foster and his reign as AB coach is that it has been entirely predictable. The vast majority of fans knew this was a poor appointment, notwithstanding the issues that lay ahead of NZ rugby after the RWC2019.
If the average Person can see something the NZR can’t? What does that say about how the game is run in this country?
I'll play devil's advocate here:
Foster's time as head coach with the Chiefs wasn't great. But people can develop and improve if they show that they can learn from past mistakes.
Foster was given massive wraps by Hansen working as his assistant in 2015. It suggested that he had learned from past mistakes and was capable of leading a high performance team. that was how Hansen sold it at the end of his tenure as head coach.
Hansen's recommendation and NZRU's steadfast refusal to move away from the succession planning that had worked since Henry (yielding 2 back to back world cups) is what led to Foster.
You can see some method to the madness, but I am intrigued to know what Foster presented to the NZRU hiring committee. If he sold them on changing the team's tactics, there is little evidence thus far to say he has delivered.
The alarm bells were ringing after Lions 2017, and certainly after WC 2019. Did NZRU go for the continuity candidate and ignore the signs that the ABs were going stale because continuity had been so successful in the past? Or did Foster convince them that he was going to do things very differently from Hansen and revitalise the team, and that as a member of the current coaching team he was best placed to do that in a more seamless manner than a new coach (e.g. Razor)? If so, how did he convince them that he was capable of doing this?
@stodders good questions
