All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make.There is a proof, how do we know they wouldn't have made ABs? Hell look at Isaac Boss people said the same about him, and ignore the fact he turned down AB jersey when selected. I agree Lowe and JGP are better players than they appeared when they left country, and speaks to me of a very good club comp they are in, also shows what I mean in comparing the teams, you can only name NZ players in Irish team. I am disappointed as anyone , but reamain of the opinion we need to look at other teams and how good somw of their players are. All you did was rubbish Lowe and JGP and not actually given them credit for being good players.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
JGP is a vital cog in a team that regularly beats us, as well as many other tier 1 nations. Barely better than Christie, who has achieved....getting on the field? I smell a slight bias....
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I know I harp on about 10s but the test game at the moment is not suited to either of our best 10s. We are missing a game controller. Both BB and RM play off instinct rather than break teams down. RM can break down poor teams but not good ones, which requires better kicking from hand than he has.
It is fair to say that we aren't running an attack from other players for these guys can feed into but also maybe there is an element of having to try and run a game that suits them?
I think we are in some fairly medium/long term strife as we have a generation of 10s and coaches that have grown up emulating a style that isn't effective at the moment given the changes to defensive systems.
Put a DC in this AB side and you'd see a massive difference from his ability to steer us around the park. Even a Cruden would do a better job..We are complaining that our gameplan seems to rely on individual brilliance but then have two 10s that have always played that way.
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I know I harp on about 10s but the test game at the moment is not suited to either of our best 10s. We are missing a game controller. Both BB and RM play off instinct rather than break teams down. RM can break down poor teams but not good ones, which requires better kicking from hand than he has.
It is fair to say that we aren't running an attack from other players for these guys can feed into but also maybe there is an element of having to try and run a game that suits them?
I think we are in some fairly medium/long term strife as we have a generation of 10s and coaches that have grown up emulating a style that isn't effective at the moment given the changes to defensive systems.
Put a DC in this AB side and you'd see a massive difference from his ability to steer us around the park. Even a Cruden would do a better job..We are complaining that our gameplan seems to rely on individual brilliance but then have two 10s that have always played that way.
But who do we have who can fulfill that role?
So we adjust our game plan to match who we have ... ?
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
JGP is a vital cog in a team that regularly beats us, as well as many other tier 1 nations. Barely better than Christie, who has achieved....getting on the field? I smell a slight bias....
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
JGP is a vital cog in a team that regularly beats us, as well as many other tier 1 nations. Barely better than Christie, who has achieved....getting on the field? I smell a slight bias....
And considering we had 50 fullbacks and no wingers in the Maori squad I think Lowe would be a bolted on starter.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If ST was dumped for Taylor I will not know what to say.
Taylor is missing impact, passes, tackles... seems to have slipped mightily since a few years ago.I'm not so upset about Hoskins, a fine 8 in the making but it is getting to the stage where I worry this ABs setup will give him some bad habits...
Looks like he was “dumped” for Coles given Taylor is in the same spot he has been all series…
Just on Taylor, his attack was okay in Test 1. Thought his throwing and support play was starting to come good. His tight work wasn’t where we needed it and then he was shocking last weekend. And Sami wasn’t great either. Only front rower that played okay was Bower I thought.
Anyway I have a little bit of faith that he will come out with a bit of fire and step up.
I never thought Sotutu would get a start in this series but thought he may have been a bench option, but they clearly like the Dalton option.
Sam/Paps/Ardie didn't work so well.
If Paps AND Akira come on, and Scooter moves, who comes off?
They could finish with
Lock - Whitelock/Retallick
Lock - Barrett
6 - Ioane
7 - Papali’i
8 - Savea@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If ST was dumped for Taylor I will not know what to say.
Taylor is missing impact, passes, tackles... seems to have slipped mightily since a few years ago.I'm not so upset about Hoskins, a fine 8 in the making but it is getting to the stage where I worry this ABs setup will give him some bad habits...
Looks like he was “dumped” for Coles given Taylor is in the same spot he has been all series…
Just on Taylor, his attack was okay in Test 1. Thought his throwing and support play was starting to come good. His tight work wasn’t where we needed it and then he was shocking last weekend. And Sami wasn’t great either. Only front rower that played okay was Bower I thought.
Anyway I have a little bit of faith that he will come out with a bit of fire and step up.
I never thought Sotutu would get a start in this series but thought he may have been a bench option, but they clearly like the Dalton option.
Sam/Paps/Ardie didn't work so well.
If Paps AND Akira come on, and Scooter moves, who comes off?
They could finish with
Lock - Whitelock/Retallick
Lock - Barrett
6 - Ioane
7 - Papali’i
8 - SaveaSavea for lineout?
If tighties are getting ball then great, but if breakdown is key I'd prefer Cane/Paps/Akira.
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@sparky said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If we lose this game, if we lose this series, I can't see how Foster can continue as AB coach. He will have zero credibility with the players and fans. His job is on the line this weekend.
NZR have been very quiet, haven't they?
Maybe his KPI just says "announce learnings postmatch".@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
If we lose this game, if we lose this series, I can't see how Foster can continue as AB coach. He will have zero credibility with the players and fans. His job is on the line this weekend.
NZR have been very quiet, haven't they?
Maybe his KPI just says "announce learnings postmatch".His job is safe, they only renewed his contract last year. If we lose the series he’s prob hold on. If we lose the Bled he would need to do the honourable thing and resign.
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Newshub was making a big deal about Mark Robinson being at the ABs training yesterday. NZR is based in Wellington, of course.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Newshub was making a big deal about Mark Robinson being at the ABs training yesterday. NZR is based in Wellington, of course.
Havili injured, Goodhue not quite right, Quinn out of the mix…commeth the hour commeth the Mark.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
Yep I didn't know Boss had either, he was talking about it on tv last week, said he had always wanted to play for Ireland as his Dad was a passionate Irishman, and thought probably he would be a reserve behind Marshall & co, hey and many young fellas like the idea of living overseas. He was in Chiefs, and let's face it Tokoroa sneak a few test players in lol,
James Lowe had already played for MABs before he left as a still young fella. and hell I think if we get the likes of Bridge, Ennor etc making ABs, he would have to be up around as good as them at least.
JGP, well at test rugby he has been better than Christie I think, not a hell of a lot (I like Christie) but he has been bloody good in 6N s etc, and you know he a pretty reasonable 9 if he can knock Connor Murray out of team. I not saying any are really World XV players, but they not bad , and to say Ireland are no good because these fellas play for them is perhaps not giving them credit is all I saying. -
Hope Roger goes well ,
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Allblacks grow up in otara ?
Been great league players such as wiki .
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Hope Roger goes well ,
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Allblacks grow up in otara ?
Been great league players such as wiki .
@kiwiinmelb Eric Rush went to Tangaroa College. Their one and only AB.
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Hope Roger goes well ,
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Allblacks grow up in otara ?
Been great league players such as wiki .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Hope Roger goes well ,
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Allblacks grow up in otara ?
Been great league players such as wiki .
Wasn't Jonah from around there?
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Hope Roger goes well ,
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Allblacks grow up in otara ?
Been great league players such as wiki .
Wasn't Jonah from around there?
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 Mariner4Life's username is based on the club he played for ...
Your "only real rugby fan" act is getting rather tired.
and coached
and served on the committee for a decadebut yeah, just a TV guy with no clue.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 Mariner4Life's username is based on the club he played for ...
Your "only real rugby fan" act is getting rather tired.
and coached
and served on the committee for a decadebut yeah, just a TV guy with no clue.
But in Australia. What do you know about NZ rugby ... ?
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@pakman manukau , close
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@pakman manukau , close
Isn't he from Mangere?
I think Tupou Vaai might be from Otara.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@pakman manukau , close
Isn't he from Mangere?
I think Tupou Vaai might be from Otara.
@Dice said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@pakman manukau , close
Isn't he from Mangere?
I think Tupou Vaai might be from Otara.
Yes, Mangere for Jonah.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make..... Isaac Boss ...eLowe and JGP
Did Boss get offered an AB position? Really?
Would have made the XV from the republic of Tokoroa ... but ABs?
And Lowe would still be out of the squad. Might not even make the MABs.
JGP ... better than Christie? Maybe, but barely.
Yep I didn't know Boss had either, he was talking about it on tv last week, said he had always wanted to play for Ireland as his Dad was a passionate Irishman, and thought probably he would be a reserve behind Marshall & co, hey and many young fellas like the idea of living overseas. He was in Chiefs, and let's face it Tokoroa sneak a few test players in lol,
James Lowe had already played for MABs before he left as a still young fella. and hell I think if we get the likes of Bridge, Ennor etc making ABs, he would have to be up around as good as them at least.
JGP, well at test rugby he has been better than Christie I think, not a hell of a lot (I like Christie) but he has been bloody good in 6N s etc, and you know he a pretty reasonable 9 if he can knock Connor Murray out of team. I not saying any are really World XV players, but they not bad , and to say Ireland are no good because these fellas play for them is perhaps not giving them credit is all I saying.JGP has been a slow burn in Ireland, being used as a back up to Luke McGrath, a player who was a great white hope early in his career, at Leinster more often than not up until last year. Murray has been in decline since suffering a serious neck injury a couple of years ago, but the real reason JGP is picked is that on top of improving hugely since he arrived here he suits the style of football Farrell wants Ireland to play. He isn’t as brilliant defensively as Murray, or have the passing speed and range of Aaron Smith, but he is very quick to the breakdown, has a very decent pass, and his kicking game has improved beyond belief. He is virtually unrecognisable from the guy who arrived here a few years ago.
I’m not as convinced by Lowe, as I think he is very vulnerable defensively both technically and tactically, and I think he’s a bit unreliable when the chips are down. I would never question his commitment though.
Aki has been outstanding for us, and even in the few games where he has been a bit poor it has never been due to lack of effort or commitment, I’m not a fan of the poached player model, and along with the vast majority of Irish rugby people am very happy it’s been tightened up, but we have generally been very lucky with the character and commitment of the guys we’ve poached especially when you include the likes of Jarred Payne and CJ Stander in the mix.
