The Current State of Rugby
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@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Good post but I take issue with this - that's not the case at all and neither of those teams are my team. The win would be to be consistent - I would've been happy with no cards, or cards for both teams. I would feel the same if the card situation was flipped. If both teams suffer the same consequences, it takes a huge amount away from the "distraction".
@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Good post but I take issue with this - that's not the case at all and neither of those teams are my team. The win would be to be consistent - I would've been happy with no cards, or cards for both teams. I would feel the same if the card situation was flipped. If both teams suffer the same consequences, it takes a huge amount away from the "distraction".
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
Even though I mentioned the Saders and Blues in the previous sentence I was being generic when I was talking about aggrieved fans. Poor writing on my part.
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
The lack of cards given out to the Crusaders was a big talking point in the thread and it took away from the game itself. People feel aggrieved when their team gets one and aggrieved when the other team doesn't. It's a no win situation.
Good post but I take issue with this - that's not the case at all and neither of those teams are my team. The win would be to be consistent - I would've been happy with no cards, or cards for both teams. I would feel the same if the card situation was flipped. If both teams suffer the same consequences, it takes a huge amount away from the "distraction".
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
Even though I mentioned the Saders and Blues in the previous sentence I was being generic when I was talking about aggrieved fans. Poor writing on my part.
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
My solution is to reduce the incidence of red cards handed out on the field. Go back to when they were handed out for acts of filth and place everything else on report for a judiciary to review. Admittedly judiciaries aren't immune from baffling decisions, but at least a game isn't ruined for the playes and spectators.
As we can see from the ongoing use of cards, the premise that it's to protect players is faulty. Players are still making errors and the cards are retrospective which means no player was protected. The egrigious act has already happened.
If they want to amend player behaviours, hand out genuinely long suspensions, which can only be served by WR sanctioned events at the level they were incurred. No "game of three halves" or some third grade club game so a player is quickly back playing Tests.
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@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
My solution is to reduce the incidence of red cards handed out on the field. Go back to when they were handed out for acts of filth and place everything else on report for a judiciary to review. Admittedly judiciaries aren't immune from baffling decisions, but at least a game isn't ruined for the playes and spectators.
As we can see from the ongoing use of cards, the premise that it's to protect players is faulty. Players are still making errors and the cards are retrospective which means no player was protected. The egrigious act has already happened.
If they want to amend player behaviours, hand out genuinely long suspensions, which can only be served by WR sanctioned events at the level they were incurred. No "game of three halves" or some third grade club game so a player is quickly back playing Tests.
@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I agree about consistency and any alternative to cards would need to solve the consistency issue too.
My solution is to reduce the incidence of red cards handed out on the field. Go back to when they were handed out for acts of filth and place everything else on report for a judiciary to review. Admittedly judiciaries aren't immune from baffling decisions, but at least a game isn't ruined for the playes and spectators.
As we can see from the ongoing use of cards, the premise that it's to protect players is faulty. Players are still making errors and the cards are retrospective which means no player was protected. The egrigious act has already happened.
If they want to amend player behaviours, hand out genuinely long suspensions, which can only be served by WR sanctioned events at the level they were incurred. No "game of three halves" or some third grade club game so a player is quickly back playing Tests.
Thats an excellent solution. On top of it, I'd also take a look at how much slow motion is used.
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Decent video here highlighting the in-game and week to week inconsistencies the sport is facing via overzealous and in some cases incompetent refereeing.
Its card roulette and we are all taking turns getting shafted by it.
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Decent video here highlighting the in-game and week to week inconsistencies the sport is facing via overzealous and in some cases incompetent refereeing.
Its card roulette and we are all taking turns getting shafted by it.
Thats actually a really good video - unsurprising when it's made by a neutral.
You can't expect 100% consistency. But on actions there shouldn't be variability between nothing and a red card. Yellow/Red .... Penalty/Yellow ... Yes. Penalty/Red .... arguable. No Sanction / Red. This shouldn't' be possible.
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Just thought I would just add a post on this thread that's maybe a little positive?
I spent yesterday arvo at local aprk here in Hawera watching 3 1st XVs play a game of 3 halves preseason fixture, before wandering home and watching Highlanders/Drua and Canes/MP games on tv and a couple of observations. We got some reasonable kids playing game even at 1st XV level, although it hurts that a couple of the good kids from NPHS and FD teams are actually locals that go off up to the bigger schools etc, but that's the reality of it. And watching the couple of games after on tv, they were bloody enjoyable. Added to that the local club comp starts next week, and I see even another local 2/3rd div team is fielding teams again this year, my personal opion is the state of rugby is bloody good right now!! -
will rugby ever catch up? over 80k going to early round domestic games
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will rugby ever catch up? over 80k going to early round domestic games
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@Kiwiwomble Probably not in Aussie , but that's what it is. I see no reason to lose sleep over it.
@Dan54 purely to spark conversation, not an argument because in general i agree, but....is that going to hinder rugby in NZ...just because NZ isn;t really big enough and our nearest neighbour is losing ground quickly. Maybe im misremembering but i thought league was really on the back foot in the 2000's but seems to have very much turned things around
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@taniwharugby Fuck some of those early engages had some power behind them. Remind me of two of those deers banging horns.
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This article could go in the NZ U20s thread but it applies to NZ rugby in general.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
This article could go in the NZ U20s thread but it applies to NZ rugby in general.
That was a weirdly somewhat positive NZ rugby article.
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
He's right
I'm watching maybe a game every fortnight if it doesn't clash. Plenty to improve in the sport, but some big alarm bells have been sounding for a while
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
He's right
I'm watching maybe a game every fortnight if it doesn't clash. Plenty to improve in the sport, but some big alarm bells have been sounding for a while
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
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@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
@Dan54 there have been weak signals for a while. But when Wayne Smith really can't be bothered watching a game, and it's the first time he's turned off at halftime, that is a loud signal.
Look, people move on, but I had tickets to Saturday and couldn't be bothered going. Am finding other ways to spend my discretionary time ... may change if I refind my mojo, but the quality of rugby at the moment is dire. Refs are at the centre of too much, penalties are everywhere, cards follow, it appears almost impossible to legally defend, and refs only want to watch the defensive side - basically I can't be bothered with it most weeks. A massive change from watching all the rugby I could get my hands on a few years ago
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@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
I think the point he’s trying to make isn’t that all games are like that but that current rulings, laws and coaching have created an environment where that is possible in a game that is actually sold as entertainment.
That is a threat to the product just as if something you manufacture is throwing out an occasional dud which is undermining sales.
Those laws were made with good intentions but have been explored and studied to a conclusion that isn’t great.
The conclusion to the Blues v MP was another situation that the outcome and happenings where at odds to what most punters want. I don’t know the solution for this one but currently a transgression can lead to downward spiralling further rulings and eventually a PT. Removing a forward for entering the side of a maul on defence (when attackers are allowed to do so at will) then depowers the scrum leading to almost unavoidable further penalties and repeated “offending”. -
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
I think the point he’s trying to make isn’t that all games are like that but that current rulings, laws and coaching have created an environment where that is possible in a game that is actually sold as entertainment.
That is a threat to the product just as if something you manufacture is throwing out an occasional dud which is undermining sales.
Those laws were made with good intentions but have been explored and studied to a conclusion that isn’t great.
The conclusion to the Blues v MP was another situation that the outcome and happenings where at odds to what most punters want. I don’t know the solution for this one but currently a transgression can lead to downward spiralling further rulings and eventually a PT. Removing a forward for entering the side of a maul on defence (when attackers are allowed to do so at will) then depowers the scrum leading to almost unavoidable further penalties and repeated “offending”.@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
I think the point he’s trying to make isn’t that all games are like that but that current rulings, laws and coaching have created an environment where that is possible in a game that is actually sold as entertainment.
That is a threat to the product just as if something you manufacture is throwing out an occasional dud which is undermining sales.
Those laws were made with good intentions but have been explored and studied to a conclusion that isn’t great.
> The conclusion to the Blues v MP was another situation that the outcome and happenings where at odds to what most punters want. I don’t know the solution for this one but currently a transgression can lead to downward spiralling further rulings and eventually a PT. Removing a forward for entering the side of a maul on defence (when attackers are allowed to do so at will) then depowers the scrum leading to almost unavoidable further penalties and repeated “offending”.Which penalties did you think weren't actual offenses?
If a team consistently gives away penalties to prevent a team from scoring, they put themselves in the refs hands. I would argue that "most punters" don't want to seen cynical play, and correct penalties given.
This was a sign of good refereeing, not caring that it was the 81st minute and making a tough call. We've seen plenty of refs swallow a whistle under pressure, this guy should be lauded for the stones to do that.
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On a more general note, as I stated at the beginning of the searon after the early rounds, I'm really enjoying the rugby I'm seeing. Some really good games, Drua finding their feet in particular is a positive.
Speeding up the game is the key IMO, they need to really stick with that and we'll slowly tranistion out of large mass monsters lumbering around for 45mins then getting subbed.
