All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@TeWaio said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Hopefully a good win, and then the opportunity to make changes for the next test.
can i ask why? is it just to see your favourite players get a run?
Nope. I'm thinking more on the bench (e.g., Sotutu, Fakatava) to see what they can do, as an alternative. Picking the same team every week is great until you have injuries and the replacement comes in cold.
Yep, with Weber and TJP no longer in the picture, we have one 33-year-old veteran halfback, one reasonably new 26-year-old and one rookie of 22. The rookie needs game time, in case one of the other two goes down with injury. I hate the thought of Smith getting injured and all we have is 8-cap Christie (who is okay, but not more than that) and Fakatava, who has a higher ceiling but has only had 37 minutes in the black jersey. I hope Fakatava gets game time in the second Puma test.
I guess the issue Foster & co have now is minimal game time before RWC2023 to give experience to new-ish players. Requires some tricky management.
If I'm Foster, I think the only way we have a puncher's chance to win the RWC from here is to play the same XV for all the remaining tests are hope for zero injuries.
We aren't good enough to win without a settled team, or to win if we cop a few injuries, so its a calculated roll of the dice. Depth be dammed.
I think an experienced 23 is possibly more key than a settled XV. Much easier to slot an experienced bench player into the team in case of injuries.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@TeWaio said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Hopefully a good win, and then the opportunity to make changes for the next test.
can i ask why? is it just to see your favourite players get a run?
Nope. I'm thinking more on the bench (e.g., Sotutu, Fakatava) to see what they can do, as an alternative. Picking the same team every week is great until you have injuries and the replacement comes in cold.
Yep, with Weber and TJP no longer in the picture, we have one 33-year-old veteran halfback, one reasonably new 26-year-old and one rookie of 22. The rookie needs game time, in case one of the other two goes down with injury. I hate the thought of Smith getting injured and all we have is 8-cap Christie (who is okay, but not more than that) and Fakatava, who has a higher ceiling but has only had 37 minutes in the black jersey. I hope Fakatava gets game time in the second Puma test.
I guess the issue Foster & co have now is minimal game time before RWC2023 to give experience to new-ish players. Requires some tricky management.
If I'm Foster, I think the only way we have a puncher's chance to win the RWC from here is to play the same XV for all the remaining tests are hope for zero injuries.
We aren't good enough to win without a settled team, or to win if we cop a few injuries, so its a calculated roll of the dice. Depth be dammed.
I think an experienced 23 is possibly more key than a settled XV. Much easier to slot an experienced bench player into the team in case of injuries.
Yeah for sure, can replace my post XV with XXIII
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
But even that strategy relies on reasonably decent selections, not reverting to previous favourites, and realising when players are no longer even worth that option.
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
But even that strategy relies on reasonably decent selections, not reverting to previous favourites, and realising when players are no longer even worth that option.
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
Correlation does not equal causation.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
But even that strategy relies on reasonably decent selections, not reverting to previous favourites, and realising when players are no longer even worth that option.
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
Correlation does not equal causation.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
But even that strategy relies on reasonably decent selections, not reverting to previous favourites, and realising when players are no longer even worth that option.
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Nor doth one swallow a summer make - though it doth bring hope.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
But even that strategy relies on reasonably decent selections, not reverting to previous favourites, and realising when players are no longer even worth that option.
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Nor doth one swallow a summer make - though it doth bring hope.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
But even that strategy relies on reasonably decent selections, not reverting to previous favourites, and realising when players are no longer even worth that option.
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Nor doth one swallow a summer make - though it doth bring hope.
:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: Ok ok Victor I can't let that slide past, the immature 15yo inside is so much wanting to make a remark haw good a swallow would be!:face_with_tears_of_joy:
But on a serious note you are correct one win doesn't make for a great season, but would be content with a few more, and still wouldn't write of season even with the losses to Irelans and Boks, I would also add in wins, that really makes a couple of swallows?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
He played really well - the challenge now is backing up.
Honestly, I'm far happier with Foster just picking some blokes and sticking with them. The chop/change we had at 6 and midfield running into 2019 didn't work. This is a higher risk strategy, but that's the quality of the current team.
My stance is not at all incompatible with the ongoing selection of Taylor as our starting 2; ST had moved so far past him it wasn't funny, but he appeared un-droppable.
I don't think Havili is our long term 12, but no issues at all with trying to build a partnership with Rieko in the midfield over the next year.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up.
this, 100%.
Backs look better with time and space generated by teh forwards. Even the loosies looked like they were a unit that worked (when they ahve been exposed in the past)
Now the pack need to front up again
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
I don’t think the arguement with commentary legend Justin Marshall helped either.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
I don’t think the arguement with commentary legend Justin Marshall helped either.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up.
this, 100%.
Backs look better with time and space generated by teh forwards. Even the loosies looked like they were a unit that worked (when they ahve been exposed in the past)
Now the pack need to front up again
@nzzp yep, I expect any other player slotted in at 6 in that match would have looked good; Akira, Jacobson, Barrett.
The tight 5 working well, which includes our props doing some of the carrying and cleaning helps our locks massively, we know SW has a huge motor, but the load he has shouldered the past couple of seasons has been massive.
But the continuity of the starting 15 is a boost too, allows combos to develop, something we havent done much recently either.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 calling Justin a knobhead is worse than punching a woman. Got it.
Calm down Kirwan. Just having a Friday laugh.
Frizell sounds like an absolute arsehole for what he did.
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 calling Justin a knobhead is worse than punching a woman. Got it.
Calm down Kirwan. Just having a Friday laugh.
Frizell sounds like an absolute arsehole for what he did.
Me too. Frank said it was quiet, trying to help out.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 calling Justin a knobhead is worse than punching a woman. Got it.
Calm down Kirwan. Just having a Friday laugh.
Frizell sounds like an absolute arsehole for what he did.
Me too. Frank said it was quiet, trying to help out.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 calling Justin a knobhead is worse than punching a woman. Got it.
Calm down Kirwan. Just having a Friday laugh.
Frizell sounds like an absolute arsehole for what he did.
Me too. Frank said it was quiet, trying to help out.
I woulda thought saying “commentary legend” made it obvious !
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Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
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Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
Will be inetersting to see how good kicking is this week without the altitude I think Kirwan.
But I will say I agree wholeheartedly, the forwards were the difference last week, though to be fair I not sure if Akira is as effective as Frizell at running in close to pack, although he did it a couple of times when he came on. -
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
Will be inetersting to see how good kicking is this week without the altitude I think Kirwan.
But I will say I agree wholeheartedly, the forwards were the difference last week, though to be fair I not sure if Akira is as effective as Frizell at running in close to pack, although he did it a couple of times when he came on.@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
Will be inetersting to see how good kicking is this week without the altitude I think Kirwan.
But I will say I agree wholeheartedly, the forwards were the difference last week, though to be fair I not sure if Akira is as effective as Frizell at running in close to pack, although he did it a couple of times when he came on.I'd counter with the try he scored against Ireland. Close in, went through four players.
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@chimoaus isn’t it interesting that some players didn’t get game time off the bench. Not sure what the point of giving Mathewson 3 minutes at the end achieved…
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@chimoaus isn’t it interesting that some players didn’t get game time off the bench. Not sure what the point of giving Mathewson 3 minutes at the end achieved…
Yeah, the Aussies only used 3 of their 7 subs. Their prop and hooker played 80 minutes.
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Yeah Frizell's performance is being overhyped. I guess compared to his previous 20 odd truly awful appearances it was a big step up, but still far below the best Akira has shown in black. As already said, the tactics of the forwards under Ryan was the big change from previous tests. The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space. Rugby is a pretty simple game, and I'm hopeful Ryan and Schmidt are helping simplify things across the park, whereas the previous coaches were trying a gameplan that was too complicated and putting our players under pressure trying to implement it.
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Also, anything less than absolutely stuffing the Argies at home is completely unacceptable. I'm still really dirty about our first ever loss to them, that was unforgivable shit, Foster is the luckiest man alive to still be in charge after that.
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Yeah Frizell's performance is being overhyped. I guess compared to his previous 20 odd truly awful appearances it was a big step up, but still far below the best Akira has shown in black. As already said, the tactics of the forwards under Ryan was the big change from previous tests. The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space. Rugby is a pretty simple game, and I'm hopeful Ryan and Schmidt are helping simplify things across the park, whereas the previous coaches were trying a gameplan that was too complicated and putting our players under pressure trying to implement it.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space.
It also helps having a 10 in Mo'unga who sees space and passes it......
