All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It's not the team I would have chosen but there is some wry amusement in watching all those that demanded he pick a settled team lose their shit when Fozzie does exactly that
I know there has been a game last weekend - a game we would almost certainly have won but for Codie Taylor. Who has been replaced.
So like I said, not the team I would pick; but I can see the argument for giving the run on side another chance. The bench is an improvement.
I do hope though, that the players realise the significance of: (a) this season, and (b) Saturday's result.
Agree with most of this but it is a stretch to say we would have almost certainly won but for Taylor. The only certainty is he cost a chance at the end of the game to draw equal. Who knows what would have happened if the errors he made were not made.
It's a bit like the old argument about missed penalty kicks. Land the kick and the whole game changes from that point on.
If there was a critical moment it wasn't at the end, it was when we were penalised at a lineout setting up a drive for the line. The players involved were completely puzzled in that they did nothing different than usual and can tell if the timing of a much practiced facet is out.
From that point on we didn't want to risk the lineout drive as an option until we became desperate and it may have contributed to the rushed execution.
Firstly it was a likely loss of 5-7 points but it also took a major weapon away@Crucial said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If there was a critical moment it wasn't at the end, it was when we were penalised at a lineout setting up a drive for the line. The players involved were completely puzzled in that they did nothing different than usual and can tell if the timing of a much practiced facet is out.
Which is a shame on the back of mauls not being refereed correctly for donkeys. Suddenly the illegal thing you were doing all along gets the whistle.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If there was a critical moment it wasn't at the end, it was when we were penalised at a lineout setting up a drive for the line. The players involved were completely puzzled in that they did nothing different than usual and can tell if the timing of a much practiced facet is out.
Which is a shame on the back of mauls not being refereed correctly for donkeys. Suddenly the illegal thing you were doing all along gets the whistle.
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If there was a critical moment it wasn't at the end, it was when we were penalised at a lineout setting up a drive for the line. The players involved were completely puzzled in that they did nothing different than usual and can tell if the timing of a much practiced facet is out.
Which is a shame on the back of mauls not being refereed correctly for donkeys. Suddenly the illegal thing you were doing all along gets the whistle.
It was very much a hairline call. Arg defender wrapped in from the side and connected with the lifter. Certainly wasn't an obvious one where the lifter steps around in front of the catcher at all.
Yes, possibly illegal by strict interpretation, but if so I haven't seen a legal maul from a line out in a very long time. -
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If there was a critical moment it wasn't at the end, it was when we were penalised at a lineout setting up a drive for the line. The players involved were completely puzzled in that they did nothing different than usual and can tell if the timing of a much practiced facet is out.
Which is a shame on the back of mauls not being refereed correctly for donkeys. Suddenly the illegal thing you were doing all along gets the whistle.
It was very much a hairline call. Arg defender wrapped in from the side and connected with the lifter. Certainly wasn't an obvious one where the lifter steps around in front of the catcher at all.
Yes, possibly illegal by strict interpretation, but if so I haven't seen a legal maul from a line out in a very long time. -
So predictable.
What's lost in the shuffle is Coles' recent AB performances have been as bad as Taylors.
Hopefully Samisoni plays more than 45 minutes.
Interesting the 'injured' starting props from last week that 'had' to come off the field are fit to play this week.....
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Interesting the 'injured' starting props from last week that 'had' to come off the field are fit to play this week.....
They were keeping our powder dry for this weekend. Because obviously we were going to win without them.
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They couldn't string together a coherent story if they tried at this point. Bringing BB back in makes total sense but I feel for Perofeta. If only the coaches held themselves to account like they've done with Taylor.
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They couldn't string together a coherent story if they tried at this point. Bringing BB back in makes total sense but I feel for Perofeta. If only the coaches held themselves to account like they've done with Taylor.
@Paekakboyz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
They couldn't string together a coherent story if they tried at this point. Bringing BB back in makes total sense but I feel for Perofeta. If only the coaches held themselves to account like they've done with Taylor.
It’s pro rugby. You need to be ruthless. He should have done WAY more in his 50 seconds on the field than he did.
Totally his own fault.
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@Paekakboyz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
They couldn't string together a coherent story if they tried at this point. Bringing BB back in makes total sense but I feel for Perofeta. If only the coaches held themselves to account like they've done with Taylor.
It’s pro rugby. You need to be ruthless. He should have done WAY more in his 50 seconds on the field than he did.
Totally his own fault.
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@MN5 you're being generous mate, he had 55 seconds ffs!! I mean if you can't save a game in under a minute you don't really have any business being an AB!
@Paekakboyz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@MN5 you're being generous mate, he had 55 seconds ffs!! I mean if you can't save a game in under a minute you don't really have any business being an AB!
He was in a perfect position to do this. Absolutely hopeless
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What a weird time to be an AB fan.
In the past coaches would have made wholesale changes after a historic home loss to Argentina ( not forgetting a historic series loss to Ireland prior to that )
They can’t ALL have dodgy photos of him surely ?
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
In the past coaches would have made wholesale changes after a historic home loss to Argentina ( not forgetting a historic series loss to Ireland prior to that )
We really don't have that option/luxury any more. Collectively they don't have the confidence and are constantly striving not to lose.
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@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
not that i want to defend them...but
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore and they know RI can cover wing and Havili could cover 15 if needed
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
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@ACT-Crusader Having no.7 on your jersey and playing like an openside aren't the same thing.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ACT-Crusader Having no.7 on your jersey and playing like an openside aren't the same thing.
Isn’t it? Well gee, I’ve learned something new today.
The question was specifically about the number 7…
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
you mean someone playing like a 7 at 7...someone playing like a 6 at 6....and someone playing like an 8 at 8....madness
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
I remember all their Dads playing NPC back in the late 90s too.
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Argentina: Juan Cruz Mallia, Emiliano Boffelli, Matias Moroni, Matias Orlando, Santiago Cordero, Santiago Carreras, Tomas Cubelli, Pablo Matera, Marcos Kremer, Santiago Grondona, Tomas Lavanini, Guido Petti, Joel Sclavi, Julian Montoya (c), Thomas Gallo.
Reserves: Santiago Socino, Mayco Vivas, Eduardo Bello, Matias Alemanno, Juan Martin Gonzalez Samso, Gonzalo Bertranou, Benjamin Urdapilleta, Lucio Cinti.
The usually exuberant Cheika was somewhat lost for words when informed of the tattoo on Thursday morning after making four changes – at blindside, halfback, lock and left wing – to his team for the return test against the All Blacks in Hamilton on Saturday.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Argentina: Juan Cruz Mallia, Emiliano Boffelli, Matias Moroni, Matias Orlando, Santiago Cordero, Santiago Carreras, Tomas Cubelli, Pablo Matera, Marcos Kremer, Santiago Grondona, Tomas Lavanini, Guido Petti, Joel Sclavi, Julian Montoya (c), Thomas Gallo.
Reserves: Santiago Socino, Mayco Vivas, Eduardo Bello, Matias Alemanno, Juan Martin Gonzalez Samso, Gonzalo Bertranou, Benjamin Urdapilleta, Lucio Cinti.
The usually exuberant Cheika was somewhat lost for words when informed of the tattoo on Thursday morning after making four changes – at blindside, halfback, lock and left wing – to his team for the return test against the All Blacks in Hamilton on Saturday.
Pumas pack much more effective when Petti joined so that change I expected.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
Seem to recall in sheds at half time in 2003 RWC final Johnson saying, 'Fuck off, Clive'. Senior players need to be problem solvers.
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I'm enjoying the selection process. Well, the meta aspects. Foster offers up so much that other coaches just don't.
If the ABs play well, do they keep the same team for Bled 1? That would be normal.
If the ABs play badly, do the they keep the same team? That would be unusual, but very Foster. How would he justify changes now? All other losses have seen minimal changes.
So we potentially go into the last game with Australia with a team that has played all season, and reserves with zero game time.
