All Blacks v Argentina II
-
@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
not that i want to defend them...but
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore and they know RI can cover wing and Havili could cover 15 if needed
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
-
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
-
@ACT-Crusader Having no.7 on your jersey and playing like an openside aren't the same thing.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ACT-Crusader Having no.7 on your jersey and playing like an openside aren't the same thing.
Isn’t it? Well gee, I’ve learned something new today.
The question was specifically about the number 7…
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
you mean someone playing like a 7 at 7...someone playing like a 6 at 6....and someone playing like an 8 at 8....madness
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
they obviously dont see savea as a 7 at all anymore
When was the last time he played 7 at Test level?
Last year vs Argies
I actually liked how that loose forward trio played too (Blackadder, Savea, Sotutu)
I remember all their Dads playing NPC back in the late 90s too.
-
Argentina: Juan Cruz Mallia, Emiliano Boffelli, Matias Moroni, Matias Orlando, Santiago Cordero, Santiago Carreras, Tomas Cubelli, Pablo Matera, Marcos Kremer, Santiago Grondona, Tomas Lavanini, Guido Petti, Joel Sclavi, Julian Montoya (c), Thomas Gallo.
Reserves: Santiago Socino, Mayco Vivas, Eduardo Bello, Matias Alemanno, Juan Martin Gonzalez Samso, Gonzalo Bertranou, Benjamin Urdapilleta, Lucio Cinti.
The usually exuberant Cheika was somewhat lost for words when informed of the tattoo on Thursday morning after making four changes – at blindside, halfback, lock and left wing – to his team for the return test against the All Blacks in Hamilton on Saturday.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Argentina: Juan Cruz Mallia, Emiliano Boffelli, Matias Moroni, Matias Orlando, Santiago Cordero, Santiago Carreras, Tomas Cubelli, Pablo Matera, Marcos Kremer, Santiago Grondona, Tomas Lavanini, Guido Petti, Joel Sclavi, Julian Montoya (c), Thomas Gallo.
Reserves: Santiago Socino, Mayco Vivas, Eduardo Bello, Matias Alemanno, Juan Martin Gonzalez Samso, Gonzalo Bertranou, Benjamin Urdapilleta, Lucio Cinti.
The usually exuberant Cheika was somewhat lost for words when informed of the tattoo on Thursday morning after making four changes – at blindside, halfback, lock and left wing – to his team for the return test against the All Blacks in Hamilton on Saturday.
Pumas pack much more effective when Petti joined so that change I expected.
-
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
Seem to recall in sheds at half time in 2003 RWC final Johnson saying, 'Fuck off, Clive'. Senior players need to be problem solvers.
-
I'm enjoying the selection process. Well, the meta aspects. Foster offers up so much that other coaches just don't.
If the ABs play well, do they keep the same team for Bled 1? That would be normal.
If the ABs play badly, do the they keep the same team? That would be unusual, but very Foster. How would he justify changes now? All other losses have seen minimal changes.
So we potentially go into the last game with Australia with a team that has played all season, and reserves with zero game time.
-
I'm enjoying the selection process. Well, the meta aspects. Foster offers up so much that other coaches just don't.
If the ABs play well, do they keep the same team for Bled 1? That would be normal.
If the ABs play badly, do the they keep the same team? That would be unusual, but very Foster. How would he justify changes now? All other losses have seen minimal changes.
So we potentially go into the last game with Australia with a team that has played all season, and reserves with zero game time.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I'm enjoying the selection process. Well, the meta aspects. Foster offers up so much that other coaches just don't.
If the ABs play well, do they keep the same team for Bled 1? That would be normal.
If the ABs play badly, do the they keep the same team? That would be unusual, but very Foster. How would he justify changes now? All other losses have seen minimal changes.
So we potentially go into the last game with Australia with a team that has played all season, and reserves with zero game time.
That sounds like Foster Logic.
-
@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
There's only two guys that regularly play openside. Ardie will likely play 80mins at no8 again. Papali'i covers 6 & 7. SF covers 6 & 8. Also S Barrett covers 6
QT is easy to explain. Barrett covers 10 & 15, Reiko covers wing. There's no need for additional outside back cover
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
There's only two guys that regularly play openside. Ardie will likely play 80mins at no8 again. Papali'i covers 6 & 7. SF covers 6 & 8. Also S Barrett covers 6
QT is easy to explain. Barrett covers 10 & 15, Reiko covers wing. There's no need for additional outside back cover
And Kramer for 80 will be all over Ardie like a cheap Italian suit.
-
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
There's only two guys that regularly play openside. Ardie will likely play 80mins at no8 again. Papali'i covers 6 & 7. SF covers 6 & 8. Also S Barrett covers 6
QT is easy to explain. Barrett covers 10 & 15, Reiko covers wing. There's no need for additional outside back cover
I think it points to Cane and Frizell being replaced in the second half with Papalii and Retallick respectively.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Derpus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Setting aside all else - I just cant follow the reasoning behind having a third openside and a specialist centre on the bench?
There's only two guys that regularly play openside. Ardie will likely play 80mins at no8 again. Papali'i covers 6 & 7. SF covers 6 & 8. Also S Barrett covers 6
QT is easy to explain. Barrett covers 10 & 15, Reiko covers wing. There's no need for additional outside back cover
I think it points to Cane and Frizell being replaced in the second half with Papalii and Retallick respectively.
Yes. In a way Akira is being rested so Scooter can have a run at 6 late on.
-
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Crucial it needs review. Not nearly enough consistency.
The really interesting thing would be to know if that ref called same in Boks Leekmen first test. I'd be stunned if one or both teams didn't do same thing at least once in that game.
If the call had been made in first couple of mauls on Saturday, fair enough, but there's a strong sense ref wasn't consistent over course of game.
He certainly seemed to forget the offside line in last 10.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
Seem to recall in sheds at half time in 2003 RWC final Johnson saying, 'Fuck off, Clive'. Senior players need to be problem solvers.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris Apart from Taylor, I don't think the players are the problem.
Game plan, and how it is communicated to the players (lack of clear messaging), and defence seem to be the main issues IMO. That's on the coaches, particularly Foster and Mcleod.
yes, thoeretically you're right...but its still pretty worrying that these guys havent taken it on themselves to sort it out on the field if what the coaches are telling them isn;t working again...and again
was it in the foster thread someone posted that he had pretty much said theyre not doing what hes telling them
something has to bloody change
Seem to recall in sheds at half time in 2003 RWC final Johnson saying, 'Fuck off, Clive'. Senior players need to be problem solvers.
You played in the 2003 World Cup final ? Awesome stuff !!
-
@Steve said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Imagine how Perofeta feels.
I imagine he's outraged.
He's been replaced on the bench by a two time World Rugby Player of the Year, a guy who scored the match-sealing try in the 2015 RWC from fullback, and a guy who's clearly been preferred at his franchise at first five for the entire season.
Most likely, I imagine he's looking over his shoulder at DMac.
-
Got to wonder if Sotutu can get a chance this year. Do you think he will go to an NH club and wait for eligibility?
@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Got to wonder if Sotutu can get a chance this year. Do you think he will go to an NH club and wait for eligibility?
If he does, he'll have to do that after 2024, because that's when his contract with NZR expires.
-
Pretty much what I expected.
I'm a bit surprised at Papali'i instead of Akira - but, if the main plan is to sub your openside, then it makes some sense.
Dalton is a bit bigger than Cane, I think. Removes the need of juggling Ardie to 7, and we still have options of moving Barrett to 6 if necessary.
I guess Frizell and Cane can play 8 if Ardie gets injured, but that won't be ideal.
-
Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
That's an interesting comment, because you don't have to go back too many weeks to see people talking about us being blessed with the quality of loosies we have.
In a way, they're right - but the problem is we have a whole bunch of same-same guys who are probably best characterized as 7.5s. Which may well be what you needs to play 7 these days.
We can field any of Cane, Savea, Papali'i, Blackadder in that role and not lose too much.
But the guys who are playing 8 aren't a lot bigger - well, the main one is Ardie, but Sotutu and Jacobson aren't great big munters either.
If you want big guys to play 6 and 8 (which I mainly do), you're really looking at Frizell, Akira, Robinson, Sowakula - two of whom aren't in the squad, and the other two are mainly 6s these days..
