Bledisloe 1
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I'm firmly on the fence in the Frizzell v Ioane debate. Prior to this RC I was all Ioane. But I have seen stuff recently from Frizzell that has impressed me - mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
But to throw some stats in there, SA 1 AO carried 4 times for 10m. Made 8 tackles. SA 2 Frizzell carried 8 times for 44m - and it was really fucking noticeable. To be honest, I didn't think his yardage was as high as that (and maybe just related to playing with more depth) - but it was clear that he was forcing defenders to make tackles repeatedly, and often 2 at a time. I loved the directness of his play. He also made 8 tackles that game.
Fast forward to ARG 1 and the team was rubbish. Yet Friz ran 8 times again for 30m - the highest gains of any forward (Ardie 2nd with 11 for 28m). Only 5 tackles with a key miss for a poor mark in that column.
Arg 2 I can discount the offense a bit cos the tight 5 were so fucken awesome and the game opened up and the backs got to play, but he still carried 4 times for 20m. Another couple of missed tackles to the negative.
Anyway, that was a long-winded way of saying that I think Frizzell has made progress, largely with his intent in attack. He plays very tight and runs very direct - which is maybe exactly what the coaches like with Ardie out there. He is certainly not a game-breaker, and he has made mistakes on defense. But for me he's been a shitload better in black than he has in previous appearances. Is he better than AO? I dunno TBH. Maybe it's horses for courses. Certainly you'd rather have AO off the bench than SF if you're seeking genuine impact. But for the first 50mins, its now closer than I'd have said a few weeks ago,.
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Ethan Blackadder was in better form than the pair of them.
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Ethan Blackadder was in better form than the pair of them.
@Mattasaurus said in Bledisloe 1:
Ethan Blackadder was in better form than the pair of them.
I think it is better to have a quarrel to the death over currently available players or we will never hear the end of it.
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I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
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I'm firmly on the fence in the Frizzell v Ioane debate. Prior to this RC I was all Ioane. But I have seen stuff recently from Frizzell that has impressed me - mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
But to throw some stats in there, SA 1 AO carried 4 times for 10m. Made 8 tackles. SA 2 Frizzell carried 8 times for 44m - and it was really fucking noticeable. To be honest, I didn't think his yardage was as high as that (and maybe just related to playing with more depth) - but it was clear that he was forcing defenders to make tackles repeatedly, and often 2 at a time. I loved the directness of his play. He also made 8 tackles that game.
Fast forward to ARG 1 and the team was rubbish. Yet Friz ran 8 times again for 30m - the highest gains of any forward (Ardie 2nd with 11 for 28m). Only 5 tackles with a key miss for a poor mark in that column.
Arg 2 I can discount the offense a bit cos the tight 5 were so fucken awesome and the game opened up and the backs got to play, but he still carried 4 times for 20m. Another couple of missed tackles to the negative.
Anyway, that was a long-winded way of saying that I think Frizzell has made progress, largely with his intent in attack. He plays very tight and runs very direct - which is maybe exactly what the coaches like with Ardie out there. He is certainly not a game-breaker, and he has made mistakes on defense. But for me he's been a shitload better in black than he has in previous appearances. Is he better than AO? I dunno TBH. Maybe it's horses for courses. Certainly you'd rather have AO off the bench than SF if you're seeking genuine impact. But for the first 50mins, its now closer than I'd have said a few weeks ago,.
@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
I'm firmly on the fence in the Frizzell v Ioane debate. Prior to this RC I was all Ioane. But I have seen stuff recently from Frizzell that has impressed me - mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
But to throw some stats in there, SA 1 AO carried 4 times for 10m. Made 8 tackles. SA 2 Frizzell carried 8 times for 44m - and it was really fucking noticeable. To be honest, I didn't think his yardage was as high as that (and maybe just related to playing with more depth) - but it was clear that he was forcing defenders to make tackles repeatedly, and often 2 at a time. I loved the directness of his play. He also made 8 tackles that game.
Fast forward to ARG 1 and the team was rubbish. Yet Friz ran 8 times again for 30m - the highest gains of any forward (Ardie 2nd with 11 for 28m). Only 5 tackles with a key miss for a poor mark in that column.
Arg 2 I can discount the offense a bit cos the tight 5 were so fucken awesome and the game opened up and the backs got to play, but he still carried 4 times for 20m. Another couple of missed tackles to the negative.
Anyway, that was a long-winded way of saying that I think Frizzell has made progress, largely with his intent in attack. He plays very tight and runs very direct - which is maybe exactly what the coaches like with Ardie out there. He is certainly not a game-breaker, and he has made mistakes on defense. But for me he's been a shitload better in black than he has in previous appearances. Is he better than AO? I dunno TBH. Maybe it's horses for courses. Certainly you'd rather have AO off the bench than SF if you're seeking genuine impact. But for the first 50mins, its now closer than I'd have said a few weeks ago,.
Gosh that’s a lot of logic for the Akira brigade to try and take in.
Can we agree that Frizell/Ioane are certainly no Jerome Kaino.
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@voodoo if we going to look at stats, let’s look at the last Irish game when we were getting pumped up front.
14 runs for 73m. 11 tackles 1 miss.
Frizzels stats when he gets a good performance in front of him are pretty average.
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe 1:
@voodoo if we going to look at stats, let’s look at the last Irish game when we were getting pumped up front.
14 runs for 73m. 11 tackles 1 miss.
Frizzels stats when he gets a good performance in front of him are pretty average.
Couldn't find that series on ESPN!
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https://all.rugby/player/akira-ioane 27y, 1.94m 113kg Blues (2014 - 2022)
Occupied positions by Akira on start team :
Back Row : 80 times ( Number 8 59%, Blindside Flanker 41% )
94(67 starts) games for Blues 130 pts 2YC
18(13 starts) for NZ 5 pts NO YC
https://all.rugby/player/shannon-frizell 28y, 1.95m 108kg Highlanders (2017 - 2022)
Occupied positions by Shannon on start team :
Back Row: 56 times ( Blindside Flanker 98%, Number 8 2% )
58(40 starts) games for Highlanders 90 pts 1 YC
21(16 starts) for NZ 20 pts 2 YC -
@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
I'm firmly on the fence in the Frizzell v Ioane debate. Prior to this RC I was all Ioane. But I have seen stuff recently from Frizzell that has impressed me - mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
But to throw some stats in there, SA 1 AO carried 4 times for 10m. Made 8 tackles. SA 2 Frizzell carried 8 times for 44m - and it was really fucking noticeable. To be honest, I didn't think his yardage was as high as that (and maybe just related to playing with more depth) - but it was clear that he was forcing defenders to make tackles repeatedly, and often 2 at a time. I loved the directness of his play. He also made 8 tackles that game.
Fast forward to ARG 1 and the team was rubbish. Yet Friz ran 8 times again for 30m - the highest gains of any forward (Ardie 2nd with 11 for 28m). Only 5 tackles with a key miss for a poor mark in that column.
Arg 2 I can discount the offense a bit cos the tight 5 were so fucken awesome and the game opened up and the backs got to play, but he still carried 4 times for 20m. Another couple of missed tackles to the negative.
Anyway, that was a long-winded way of saying that I think Frizzell has made progress, largely with his intent in attack. He plays very tight and runs very direct - which is maybe exactly what the coaches like with Ardie out there. He is certainly not a game-breaker, and he has made mistakes on defense. But for me he's been a shitload better in black than he has in previous appearances. Is he better than AO? I dunno TBH. Maybe it's horses for courses. Certainly you'd rather have AO off the bench than SF if you're seeking genuine impact. But for the first 50mins, its now closer than I'd have said a few weeks ago,.
Gosh that’s a lot of logic for the Akira brigade to try and take in.
Can we agree that Frizell/Ioane are certainly no Jerome Kaino.
@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
This made me laugh. Ringing endorsement that.
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@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
This made me laugh. Ringing endorsement that.
@Derpus said in Bledisloe 1:
@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
This made me laugh. Ringing endorsement that.
I can see my name but not what I said. Still, I’ll take the credit anyway.
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@game_film said in Bledisloe 1:
Looking forward to seeing Hoskins launch a 40m pass off his left for a try. Hope he goes well.
ill be more impressed if his defence and ball carrying is up to the required levels
@ploughboy Where’s the fun in defence and ball carrying? :winking_face:
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@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
This made me laugh. Ringing endorsement that.
@Derpus said in Bledisloe 1:
@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
mostly intent to be honest, the willingness to cart the ball up relentlessly. Has he made mistakes? Yep. Is he a game-breaker? No. Is he a bad human? Yeah, not ideal.
This made me laugh. Ringing endorsement that.
Yeah…definitely a sign of how thin our ranks are in some positions
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I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
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@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 1:
Barrett's mobility should be tested under the roof against that mobile Aussie team named. Will be a good barometer.
The question for Akira this week is when is he introduced? We know Cane typically gets subbed around the 60/65 minute mark for Papali'i but it will be interesting when Akira is brought on (and for who).
Wrong test for Barrett to be playing 6 IMO. Would’ve been better vs Boks & start Akira this week against Wallabies. At least Akira/Papali’i are coming off bench and likely at the same time. Tell Cane/Barrett to empty tank over 50mins then make way.
Other than that I like the look of the team overall. It has a consistent look to it and fatigue shouldn’t be too much of an issue given the breaks between the SA and Argies series.I’d be pretty surprised if Cane only plays 50 minutes.
I think Barrett with Cane and Hoskins has excellent balance and to take on this Wallaby side.
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 1:
Barrett's mobility should be tested under the roof against that mobile Aussie team named. Will be a good barometer.
The question for Akira this week is when is he introduced? We know Cane typically gets subbed around the 60/65 minute mark for Papali'i but it will be interesting when Akira is brought on (and for who).
Wrong test for Barrett to be playing 6 IMO. Would’ve been better vs Boks & start Akira this week against Wallabies. At least Akira/Papali’i are coming off bench and likely at the same time. Tell Cane/Barrett to empty tank over 50mins then make way.
Other than that I like the look of the team overall. It has a consistent look to it and fatigue shouldn’t be too much of an issue given the breaks between the SA and Argies series.I’d be pretty surprised if Cane only plays 50 minutes.
I think Barrett with Cane and Hoskins has excellent balance and to take on this Wallaby side.
Just thinking of Cane’s workload so far.
IMO they were better off with Akira at 6 versus Wallabies. Wallaby pack not as muscular as Boks and Akira has played really well against them. Perhaps the wet track that’s forecasted convinced them to go Barrett?
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 1:
Barrett's mobility should be tested under the roof against that mobile Aussie team named. Will be a good barometer.
The question for Akira this week is when is he introduced? We know Cane typically gets subbed around the 60/65 minute mark for Papali'i but it will be interesting when Akira is brought on (and for who).
Wrong test for Barrett to be playing 6 IMO. Would’ve been better vs Boks & start Akira this week against Wallabies. At least Akira/Papali’i are coming off bench and likely at the same time. Tell Cane/Barrett to empty tank over 50mins then make way.
Other than that I like the look of the team overall. It has a consistent look to it and fatigue shouldn’t be too much of an issue given the breaks between the SA and Argies series.I’d be pretty surprised if Cane only plays 50 minutes.
I think Barrett with Cane and Hoskins has excellent balance and to take on this Wallaby side.
Just thinking of Cane’s workload so far.
IMO they were better off with Akira at 6 versus Wallabies. Wallaby pack not as muscular as Boks and Akira has played really well against them. Perhaps the wet track that’s forecasted convinced them to go Barrett?
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 1:
Barrett's mobility should be tested under the roof against that mobile Aussie team named. Will be a good barometer.
The question for Akira this week is when is he introduced? We know Cane typically gets subbed around the 60/65 minute mark for Papali'i but it will be interesting when Akira is brought on (and for who).
Wrong test for Barrett to be playing 6 IMO. Would’ve been better vs Boks & start Akira this week against Wallabies. At least Akira/Papali’i are coming off bench and likely at the same time. Tell Cane/Barrett to empty tank over 50mins then make way.
Other than that I like the look of the team overall. It has a consistent look to it and fatigue shouldn’t be too much of an issue given the breaks between the SA and Argies series.I’d be pretty surprised if Cane only plays 50 minutes.
I think Barrett with Cane and Hoskins has excellent balance and to take on this Wallaby side.
Just thinking of Cane’s workload so far.
IMO they were better off with Akira at 6 versus Wallabies. Wallaby pack not as muscular as Boks and Akira has played really well against them. Perhaps the wet track that’s forecasted convinced them to go Barrett?
Hmmm....
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@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
Vaea Fifita was though.
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@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
Vaea Fifita was though.
@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
Vaea Fifita was though.
Not the whole game he wasn't.
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@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 1:
Barrett's mobility should be tested under the roof against that mobile Aussie team named. Will be a good barometer.
The question for Akira this week is when is he introduced? We know Cane typically gets subbed around the 60/65 minute mark for Papali'i but it will be interesting when Akira is brought on (and for who).
Wrong test for Barrett to be playing 6 IMO. Would’ve been better vs Boks & start Akira this week against Wallabies. At least Akira/Papali’i are coming off bench and likely at the same time. Tell Cane/Barrett to empty tank over 50mins then make way.
Other than that I like the look of the team overall. It has a consistent look to it and fatigue shouldn’t be too much of an issue given the breaks between the SA and Argies series.I’d be pretty surprised if Cane only plays 50 minutes.
I think Barrett with Cane and Hoskins has excellent balance and to take on this Wallaby side.
Just thinking of Cane’s workload so far.
IMO they were better off with Akira at 6 versus Wallabies. Wallaby pack not as muscular as Boks and Akira has played really well against them. Perhaps the wet track that’s forecasted convinced them to go Barrett?
Hmmm....
@Bones said in Bledisloe 1:
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@TheMojoman said in Bledisloe 1:
@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe 1:
Barrett's mobility should be tested under the roof against that mobile Aussie team named. Will be a good barometer.
The question for Akira this week is when is he introduced? We know Cane typically gets subbed around the 60/65 minute mark for Papali'i but it will be interesting when Akira is brought on (and for who).
Wrong test for Barrett to be playing 6 IMO. Would’ve been better vs Boks & start Akira this week against Wallabies. At least Akira/Papali’i are coming off bench and likely at the same time. Tell Cane/Barrett to empty tank over 50mins then make way.
Other than that I like the look of the team overall. It has a consistent look to it and fatigue shouldn’t be too much of an issue given the breaks between the SA and Argies series.I’d be pretty surprised if Cane only plays 50 minutes.
I think Barrett with Cane and Hoskins has excellent balance and to take on this Wallaby side.
Just thinking of Cane’s workload so far.
IMO they were better off with Akira at 6 versus Wallabies. Wallaby pack not as muscular as Boks and Akira has played really well against them. Perhaps the wet track that’s forecasted convinced them to go Barrett?
Hmmm....
Awesome they’re at Docklands. I thought perhaps the G. Dry track it is then..outstanding.
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@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
Vaea Fifita was though.
Not the whole game he wasn't.
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe 1:
I can't be accused of being a fan of Frizell (or Foster) but I admit when SF came back he played well at 6. But the last games against Australia, Akira terrorized them. I'd be more inclined to play him in the first game, at least.
Frizell isn't actually capable of a performance like that
Vaea Fifita was though.
Not the whole game he wasn't.
Pfffft, hard work is what the other forwards are there for
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Must say, I'm really enjoying the passion and verve of this thread in terms of Player A vs Player B etc.
It won't make a lick of difference to the result - ABs by 25.
@NTA said in Bledisloe 1:
Must say, I'm really enjoying the passion and verve of this thread in terms of Player A vs Player B etc.
It won't make a lick of difference to the result - ABs by 25.
What’s your thoughts Nick on how the Wallaby backline will fare? New halves combo, inexperienced centre combo but with some firepower out wide in Koroibete/Wright/Kellaher.
