All Blacks v England
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Well, that was one of the greatest comebacks of all time from England. Three tries in the last 10 minutes against a Tier 1 team is an incredible effort, massive kudos to them. Kicking the ball out for the draw though is something I cannot wrap my head around, they were carving us to shreds and would have got the ball over halfway pretty quickly I reckon, then it's all on for a penalty. @Catogrande as our English representative on here, I'm interested to hear your take on that - are the fans up there fine with that? I would have torn my hair out at that after such an amazing comeback.
We came out of the blocks fast in the first half and really had them under the pump. That was the best start we've made in a long time against a top side, our forwards were smacking them around and our backs looked very dangerous. That was a joy to watch. Dalton was awesome and Clarke had his best game in a long time.
Then in the second half England got an early penalty and really dominated the rest of that half. We had moments where we could have arrested momentum but some costly errors like missing touch just handed it back to them. We just can't afford mistakes like that when we are under the pump. Even more so in the final game of long hard season where we were fading.
I can't really single any one player out though. The BB droppie got us a 19 point lead with 10 to go, that should be more than enough. The BB YC was harsh as well, he got back to his feet and was competing for the ball - yeah he didn't really give the English play time to release but at the same time the defending player gets awarded the penalty more often than not there. Once it was a penalty it had to be a card though.
Most players had good moments but also made errors. Mo'unga ran with the ball well but also made costly errors. Codie was good around the park but mucked up some crucial lineouts. Rieko was a threat all game but his hands let him down a few times, and the neck roll to rub out his try wasn't smart play.
Overall though I'm happy with how the EOYT has played out. We've always struggled to win big at the end of our season, and 25-6 at 70 minutes against England in the final game is friggen awesome. We'll win from that position in a WC basically every time. We've come a long way since the Irish series where we now know 90% of what our top side is, we have some genuinely world class players in our pack and in the backline, and plenty of experience to boot. I'm excited about next year and our chances at the RWC once our top side has had more time together.
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Watching it back. Discipline cost us that one. Fix that and we'd have had a big win. England were outstanding in those last ten minutes. Crowd lifted them. Two of our finishers (Perenera and Laulala) should be nowhere near the squad next year. Whitelock and Savea ran out of legs at the end there too.
@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
Watching it back. Discipline cost us that one. Fix that and we'd have had a big win. England were outstanding in those last ten minutes. Crowd lifted them. Two of our finishers (Perenera and Laulala) should be nowhere near the squad next year. Whitelock and Savea ran out of legs at the end there too.
6 days ago he was the Messiah.
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Thought our defence was fantastic until down to 14 men. Well done Scott McLeod. Zero missed tackles in first half? Not sold on Rieko as a centre though. Communications against dummy runners just not working.
For me the big disappointment was Richie Mounga. Several critical errors and a bunch of risky plays. And his kicking depth was all over the place.
Questions also about the captaincy. Some tactics questionable and poor choice of who was kicking at times and where they were aiming.
Papalii and Retallick had enormous games in getting us forward ascendancy.
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee? -
Thought our defence was fantastic until down to 14 men. Well done Scott McLeod. Zero missed tackles in first half? Not sold on Rieko as a centre though. Communications against dummy runners just not working.
For me the big disappointment was Richie Mounga. Several critical errors and a bunch of risky plays. And his kicking depth was all over the place.
Questions also about the captaincy. Some tactics questionable and poor choice of who was kicking at times and where they were aiming.
Papalii and Retallick had enormous games in getting us forward ascendancy.
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?
Play it down their end more. Territory statistics massively favoured England.
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England were fresher during the last ten minutes because they had a seven day turnaround, which was not the case for the All Blacks. The latter had a hard battle against Scotland just six days before while England were free flowing against Japan.
@cgrant said in All Blacks v England:
England were fresher during the last ten minutes because they had a seven day turnaround, which was not the case for the All Blacks. The latter had a hard battle against Scotland just six days before while England were free flowing against Japan.
I love trying to find straws to grab, and that's a @booboo level clutch.
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After watching again accuracy in 2nd half was an issue lineout:line kicks missing touch etc, little errors here and there which meant we cldnt build pressure like we cld in 1st half.
Bigger issue which in last 20 got England in was inability to recover kicks, and not so much back three fault but we lacked urgency to get back and contest for 50/50 balls with working hard off ball which then put our d under pressure. The little things. -
Last week, the bench won the game for NZ. Against England, it transformed a probable glorious victory into a headscratching draw.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?
Play it down their end more. Territory statistics massively favoured England.
@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?
Play it down their end more. Territory statistics massively favoured England.
Yep with a trigger happy ref you should play more in their half. But we chose to kick relatively shallow all match. Should probably have used Jordie to launch a contestable bomb or 3 deep and high.
The shallow kick execution was excellent in first half though.
Did anyone see the English knee hit the deck in scrum after we got pinged for same? Just seems a lottery. -
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?
Play it down their end more. Territory statistics massively favoured England.
@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?
Play it down their end more. Territory statistics massively favoured England.
That was the main problem in the 2nd half. No ball and no territory, so always defending. The Sky stats said only 12 missed tackles but England ran through some big holes.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
Absolute disgrace of a game ruined by a pedantic referee.
There has to be a change in how games are officiated, that was one of the worst games to watch due to the absolute pedantic interpretation.
Can we simply have an overriding principle that if it does not negatively impact the opposition the ref should favour the attacking team. RI being offside with the kick had no impact on the game. Not straight onto the English side where they don't compete. Penalising England in the lineout we did not compete.
So many stupid interruptions for offences that have little to no impact on the game or either team. Why should the ref always be looking to penalise or stop the game. The goal of the ref should be to let it flow.
I would love to hear from WR on how and why this is a good spectacle and why we as the paying public should be putting up with such shit.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
But what can you do with such a trigger happy referee?
Play it down their end more. Territory statistics massively favoured England.
That was the main problem in the 2nd half. No ball and no territory, so always defending. The Sky stats said only 12 missed tackles but England ran through some big holes.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
but England ran through some big holes.
just as the Irish did at the start of the year.
For all the improvements we have made, our defence is still pretty shit, leaking 22 points in the 2nd half is a shocker!
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
but England ran through some big holes.
just as the Irish did at the start of the year.
For all the improvements we have made, our defence is still pretty shit, leaking 22 points in the 2nd half is a shocker!
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v England:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
but England ran through some big holes.
just as the Irish did at the start of the year.
For all the improvements we have made, our defence is still pretty shit, leaking 22 points in the 2nd half is a shocker!
Yes, but that starts at the breakdown, and allowing such quick recycling of the ball. England aren't as subtle as Ireland but it's still hard to stop when the defensive line is retreating. There were times in the last 10 mins when the ABs were very short of numbers out wide.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v England:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
but England ran through some big holes.
just as the Irish did at the start of the year.
For all the improvements we have made, our defence is still pretty shit, leaking 22 points in the 2nd half is a shocker!
Yes, but that starts at the breakdown, and allowing such quick recycling of the ball. England aren't as subtle as Ireland but it's still hard to stop when the defensive line is retreating. There were times in the last 10 mins when the ABs were very short of numbers out wide.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v England:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
but England ran through some big holes.
just as the Irish did at the start of the year.
For all the improvements we have made, our defence is still pretty shit, leaking 22 points in the 2nd half is a shocker!
Yes, but that starts at the breakdown, and allowing such quick recycling of the ball. England aren't as subtle as Ireland but it's still hard to stop when the defensive line is retreating. There were times in the last 10 mins when the ABs were very short of numbers out wide.
agree we were poor at the breakdown for second half and did not slow one down in last 10 min.england got fast pass phase after phase..canot remeber was it the last ten sevea gave away a silly weak penalty ?
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Why for the love of god would you attempt a dinky little kick in behind the English defence, just outside our 22, when we've only got three fucking defenders covering more than half the pitch?
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That was an epic choke from us. Not good at all. BB's stupid drop goal did not help but it was the defence out wide that let us down.
@Damo said in All Blacks v England:
BB's stupid drop goal did not help but it was the defence out wide that let us down.
Huh? If he missed the kick we likely would have gone for the penalty anyway.
@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
Eddie Jones has done us an enormous favour there. Our current defence is no where near good enough for the last ten minutes of a RWC knockout. A big rethink of that area is needed.
Yeah, I think this last 10 minutes might be beneficial for next year as we'll have a rethink and focus on it. Kind of like 2009 when we had to rethink our wing style to combat kicks.
I don't think Smith is going to a popular guy in the changing room, Farrell and the nearest prop looked pissed when he kicked that out.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v England:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v England:
but England ran through some big holes.
just as the Irish did at the start of the year.
For all the improvements we have made, our defence is still pretty shit, leaking 22 points in the 2nd half is a shocker!
Yes, but that starts at the breakdown, and allowing such quick recycling of the ball. England aren't as subtle as Ireland but it's still hard to stop when the defensive line is retreating. There were times in the last 10 mins when the ABs were very short of numbers out wide.
@Bovidae still need to be able to reset the line in those situations, but the same poor alignment and width issues we have had for some time.
The only reason I watched the Irish game is I love how good thier defence is.
