Brussels Bombing

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="569003" data-time="1459500043">
Well there's the problem NQ. Just think how stupid the average person is and then think that 50% of the population is even more stupid.</blockquote>
 
I'm going to borrow that quote off you , nice work there.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="568969" data-time="1459498351">
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Yeah, London is the most "watched" city in the world with all the CCTV footage, and I can see how it can be taken too far and used for the wrong reasons. I can't really comment on England obviously, but NZ is one of the least corrupt countries in the world however listening to the seemingly growing number of idiots over here you'd think we were all living under an oppressive dictatorship of the evil John Key who is personally listening to your every word and will swoop in and have you detained if you say the wrong thing. It's so far fron reality but these people seem to have convinced themselves otherwise, I really do wonder how their brains operate. They just live for a conspiracy.
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A story recounted to me from some time back when the first public CCTV became operational within a certain jurisdiction in Australia. Important people are within the control room and they witness the first crime captured by the system. The Commissioner (IIRC) points at the screen and says "that's excellent. Now does anyone know who the fuck that person is?"
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="569003" data-time="1459500043">
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Well there's the problem NQ. Just think how stupid the average person is and then think that 50% of the population is even more stupid.
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Gotta love George

jegga

Talking of surveillance this was in the news a couple of weeks back and it does seem a big ott 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/77885546/council-puts-secret-listening-device-on-couples-property'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/77885546/council-puts-secret-listening-device-on-couples-property</a>

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="568962" data-time="1459497599">
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The surveillance state that is now the UK tends to polarise views. There is the oft quoted "but we must fight terrorism in any way we can and only we know how to do this", which on the face of it seems sensible. Obviously terrorism= bad. But now there are cameras up all over the bloody place. Terrorism? Really? The bloody CCTV footage can't even provide a good enough image to a allow for a prosecution when some poor soul gets assaulted or raped but it can read your car registration from 100 yards away. There have been instances, and I'm not joking here, where local councils have installed surveillance equipment under the terrorism excuse/budget and have then used them to spy on people for putting their rubbish bins out on the wrong day.
 
You may want to give your Government the benefit of the doubt on this but I wouldn't go that far over here.
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To be honest I'm OK with that. I don't think they were specifically put in for that (that would have been farcical) but once they are in you have people doing shit that they've been asked not to & negaitively impacts why not ping them?

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="569004" data-time="1459500156">
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The new meme amongst the leftards is that because there's so much hopelessness out there and people feel disenfranchised ( benefits and the minimum wage were raised today, record low interest rates) that violence against politicians is to be expected. Paula Bennett seems to be the most popular target. 
Btw am I the only one that switches off when someone uses words like holistic , disenfranchised and empowerment in s sentence ?
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I switch off when i hear a politician say 'fair' it is just meaningless.

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="569013" data-time="1459501634">
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To be honest I'm OK with that. I don't think they were specifically put in for that (that would have been farcical) but once they are in you have people doing shit that they've been asked not to & negaitively impacts why not ping them? 
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But that's it isn't it? The things were purportedly put in for a saintly and good reason and then are just used for petty shit. It's just using the sensible laws (anti-terrorism) to spend a shed load of money and use the technology to crack a walnut with a fucking sledgehammer. I mean I live in a small city in Devon. Devon for fucks sake. How has terrorism impacted on bloody Devon? Oh I know there was the time a mentally retarded bloke embraced Islam and detonated a home made bomb in the bogs of a cafe in the city centre. He didn't even harm himself let alone do any bloody damage. But we still have loads of "anti-terrorism" cameras dotted around the place which have no real usage and are operated by incompetents.
 
I'm really looking forward to the annual, above inflation, increase in my council tax. I'm thinking that all those "security" camera might be able to ensure I get a fine for driving my car in a haphazard manner as I try to avoid all the potholes in the road that my fucking council won't mend.
 
fluffybunnies.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="569025" data-time="1459506674">
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But that's it isn't it? The things were purportedly put in for a saintly and good reason and then are just used for petty shit. It's just using the sensible laws (anti-terrorism) to spend a shed load of money and use the technology to crack a walnut with a fucking sledgehammer. I mean I live in a small city in Devon. Devon for fucks sake. How has terrorism impacted on bloody Devon? Oh I know there was the time a mentally retarded bloke embraced Islam and detonated a home made bomb in the bogs of a cafe in the city centre. He didn't even harm himself let alone do any bloody damage. But we still have loads of "anti-terrorism" cameras dotted around the place which have no real usage and are operated by incompetents.
 
I'm really looking forward to the annual, above inflation, increase in my council tax. I'm thinking that all those "security" camera might be able to ensure I get a fine for driving my car in a haphazard manner as I try to avoid all the potholes in the road that my fucking council won't mend.
 
fluffybunnys.
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Yes, but you are are assuming they wanted to catch petty shit & lied when they put them in. I'm assuming they put them in for a valid reason but then figured "What the hell, we have footage of people doing shit they shouldn't, should we just ignore it?". From my viewe thats great, the've spent the money I'd be fucking outraged if they weren't using them. It'd be like anti-terrorist cops ignoring robberies happing in front of them because they are not technically terror attacks.
 
I just don't see the down side, I'm not committing crime - even petty crime, so there's no issue for me. And if I get mugged I'd be hoping the guy might get caught cause he's on camera. Because there is ZERO chance of him getting caught any other way. Add to that people might actually commit less crime knowing they are on camera. The UK has a massive surveillance network - far bigger than almost any other country. And we've also got a shit ton of Jihadis. And yet almost no attacks. If the price for that is someone with zero thought for others having a hissy fit over getting fined for littering I'm all on board.

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="569827" data-time="1459762817">
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Yes, but you are are assuming they wanted to catch petty shit & lied when they put them in. I'm assuming they put them in for a valid reason but then figured "What the hell, we have footage of people doing shit they shouldn't, should we just ignore it?". From my viewe thats great, the've spent the money I'd be fucking outraged if they weren't using them. It'd be like anti-terrorist cops ignoring robberies happing in front of them because they are not technically terror attacks.
 
I just don't see the down side, I'm not committing crime - even petty crime, so there's no issue for me. And if I get mugged I'd be hoping the guy might get caught cause he's on camera. Because there is ZERO chance of him getting caught any other way. Add to that people might actually commit less crime knowing they are on camera. The UK has a massive surveillance network - far bigger than almost any other country. And we've also got a shit ton of Jihadis. And yet almost no attacks. If the price for that is someone with zero thought for others having a hissy fit over getting fined for littering I'm all on board. 
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Thank you for putting it better than I ever could. :whistle:

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="569829" data-time="1459763776">
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Thank you for putting it better than I ever could. :whistle:
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Arf.
 
If its like any normal council it would have been
 
"how much money can we have?"
"none, its austerity Britian mate"
"are there any slush funds we can trough into?"
"well... theres an anti-terrorist one"
 
dives face first into fund in the name of security

Catogrande

Gollum, it helps to have two things:- 1. An understanding of how council funding works AND is interpreted. 2. A cynical view. There is an aspect of council funding that is use it or lose it. I don't know that this is enshrined in the statutes or whatever but I have been told it exists in reality by several councillors and local politicians. Effectively the councils have a budget for each particular aspect of their working remit. If the budget does not get used it is not automatically rolled over to the next year but is actually often used as an excuse to cut the budget for the following year instead. Apparently this quite often results in almost the exact thing you described. Locally to me, we see so many complete and utter white elephants such as bike lanes that are less than 300m long, starting from nowhere and going nowhere, electrically displaying road signs that do nothing but spout utter tosh such as "consider car sharing", "start your journey in plenty of time" and these signs are often not even put in a potentially useful place such as a main arterial route which could then be used for useful traffic information. Unsurprisingly (unsurprising that is if you have point 2 above), many of these initiatives are set up towards the end of the council's accounting year. So yes it is quite possible that there is a significant amount of utilisation of funds for one thing that then get used for something totally different and substantially less important. The one I mentioned earlier about using the CCTV to catch someone putting their bins out on the wrong day - they had to train a CCTV camera exclusively on this person's home for several weeks to garner sufficient evidence of his crime, thereby using a supposed terrorist/crime resource away from doing its supposed proper duty. A complete mis-use of power IMO - and they're doing it on my bloody money too.

The Silver Fern

Brussels Bombing