Iron-Voodoo
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That’s impressive mate. I started swimming a little while again (just once a week) and so far can only get about a kilometer before I drop my balls.
@gt12 I didn’t do any swim technique as a kid, so I’m terrible. It’s a weird sport, I feel like I can swim at a super slow 2:20/100m for ages, like 4km probably. But when I try to “sprint”, I just make a shit tonne more splash and barely go any faster
If you think about your running pace and going from a 4km to a 100m, you should be going almost twice as fast over the 100m (pulling a hammy aside).
And yet in the pool my time goes from 2:20 pace to 1:50 pace - bloody ludicrous for the additional effort!
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Decent last 7 days, feeling OK but clearly need to lift, especially on the ride. Diet good on the food front, poor on the booze intake – standard story.
- Monday – rest day
- Tuesday – circuit at the gym, created 3 days of hurt for all those lady-muscles that you never usually exercise
- Wednesday – swim squad, 3.1kms of drills, pretty hard work
- Thursday – run in the city, 8.15kms at 5:11/km
- Friday – mini-brick, short session on the trainer then a 3km run at 5:08/km
- Saturday – flat out with kids stuff so forced rest day
- Sunday – 19.65km long run at 5:13/km – I really should slow these longer runs down
So solid enough output, but I really need to get back on the bike again and punch out some 130-150km rides (with a run off the back). Need to practice nutrition and get the endurance aspect going again.
Challenge is the kids activities show bugger all signs of slowing down and the wife has just taken a new job that involves some interstate travel every fortnight. Have to be more disciplined - story of my life I guess.
Weighed in at 97.5kgs this morning though, so that's 4.5kgs off my 2023 starting weight - at least that's something!
68 days to go…
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Decent last 7 days, feeling OK but clearly need to lift, especially on the ride. Diet good on the food front, poor on the booze intake – standard story.
- Monday – rest day
- Tuesday – circuit at the gym, created 3 days of hurt for all those lady-muscles that you never usually exercise
- Wednesday – swim squad, 3.1kms of drills, pretty hard work
- Thursday – run in the city, 8.15kms at 5:11/km
- Friday – mini-brick, short session on the trainer then a 3km run at 5:08/km
- Saturday – flat out with kids stuff so forced rest day
- Sunday – 19.65km long run at 5:13/km – I really should slow these longer runs down
So solid enough output, but I really need to get back on the bike again and punch out some 130-150km rides (with a run off the back). Need to practice nutrition and get the endurance aspect going again.
Challenge is the kids activities show bugger all signs of slowing down and the wife has just taken a new job that involves some interstate travel every fortnight. Have to be more disciplined - story of my life I guess.
Weighed in at 97.5kgs this morning though, so that's 4.5kgs off my 2023 starting weight - at least that's something!
68 days to go…
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
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@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
@scribe yep, have been nervous on the bike after the last 2 efforts blew my knee/quad up for days afterwards. But had a easing-back session last night, 75mins doing the Matt Hayman Paris Roubaix on Zwift, some decent efforts. Woke up with knees feeling great today, so Sat I’ll be back on the road for 100km+ or if raining (it looks shit) will be on the trainer for 2 hours instead
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@scribe yep, have been nervous on the bike after the last 2 efforts blew my knee/quad up for days afterwards. But had a easing-back session last night, 75mins doing the Matt Hayman Paris Roubaix on Zwift, some decent efforts. Woke up with knees feeling great today, so Sat I’ll be back on the road for 100km+ or if raining (it looks shit) will be on the trainer for 2 hours instead
@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
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@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
I got one on Monday! The massage that is, not the happy ending. I'm a complete wimp when it comes to massage so it was 60mins of fucking agony - barely even massage, more like poking and elbowing and leaning on me with sharp parts of her body. It would be bloody funny to see a time-lapse of my face grimacing through the session!
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
I got one on Monday! The massage that is, not the happy ending. I'm a complete wimp when it comes to massage so it was 60mins of fucking agony - barely even massage, more like poking and elbowing and leaning on me with sharp parts of her body. It would be bloody funny to see a time-lapse of my face grimacing through the session!
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
I got one on Monday! The massage that is, not the happy ending. I'm a complete wimp when it comes to massage so it was 60mins of fucking agony - barely even massage, more like poking and elbowing and leaning on me with sharp parts of her body. It would be bloody funny to see a time-lapse of my face grimacing through the session!
The son's partner is a massage therapist. Works on the ABs when they are down south. I wont let her go near me. Like you say, it's all elbows and pain.
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@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
Question for you on HR Zones - are you able to actually do anything remotely productive in Z2? If I look at the plan I am loosely following, it looks like this:
Max = 165
Z1 = 60-65% = 105-114bmp
Z2 = 65-75% = 114-131bpm
Z3 = 75-80% = 131-140bpm
Z4 = 80-90% = 140-158bpmIf I look at anything I do, only swimming has me sitting Z2 for any length of time.
This was the week gone, adding HR's for extra data:
- Monday = rest day
- Tuesday = 1hr 20 on the trainer. average HR 141bpm
- Wednesday = Squad swimming - 3km drills, average HR 130bpm
- Thursday = Brick - 50mins on the trainer, average HR 135, then 8.24km run at 5:12/km - average HR 154bpm
- Friday = 2km swim, all FS, no stops - took almost 50mins (god I am slow) and average HR was 130bpm
- Saturday = Brick - 1hr40mins trainer (didn't capture HR) then 5km run at 4:47/km, average HR 161bpm
- Sunday = 8km run at 4:55/km, average HR 155bpm
I reckon I'd enter Z2 doing a slow walk, and I can't stay there in anything except swimming (who knew drowning was such low-stress on your heart?),.
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
Question for you on HR Zones - are you able to actually do anything remotely productive in Z2? If I look at the plan I am loosely following, it looks like this:
Max = 165
Z1 = 60-65% = 105-114bmp
Z2 = 65-75% = 114-131bpm
Z3 = 75-80% = 131-140bpm
Z4 = 80-90% = 140-158bpmIf I look at anything I do, only swimming has me sitting Z2 for any length of time.
This was the week gone, adding HR's for extra data:
- Monday = rest day
- Tuesday = 1hr 20 on the trainer. average HR 141bpm
- Wednesday = Squad swimming - 3km drills, average HR 130bpm
- Thursday = Brick - 50mins on the trainer, average HR 135, then 8.24km run at 5:12/km - average HR 154bpm
- Friday = 2km swim, all FS, no stops - took almost 50mins (god I am slow) and average HR was 130bpm
- Saturday = Brick - 1hr40mins trainer (didn't capture HR) then 5km run at 4:47/km, average HR 161bpm
- Sunday = 8km run at 4:55/km, average HR 155bpm
I reckon I'd enter Z2 doing a slow walk, and I can't stay there in anything except swimming (who knew drowning was such low-stress on your heart?),.
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
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@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
@antipodean said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
Z2 training by extension requires huge amounts of time that I just don't have
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@antipodean said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
Z2 training by extension requires huge amounts of time that I just don't have
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@antipodean said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
Z2 training by extension requires huge amounts of time that I just don't have
Yes, admittedly from what I've read it requires considerable lead time to adopt.
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@antipodean said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
Z2 training by extension requires huge amounts of time that I just don't have
Yes, admittedly from what I've read it requires considerable lead time to adopt.
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@antipodean Also - fuck that 65kg skinny-ass weakling and his "check out my sub-3hr marathon while I'm jabbering away to you guys, you can do it too if you run 27,000kms in the next 10yrs" video.
Bet he can't sink piss for shit.
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@antipodean Also - fuck that 65kg skinny-ass weakling and his "check out my sub-3hr marathon while I'm jabbering away to you guys, you can do it too if you run 27,000kms in the next 10yrs" video.
Bet he can't sink piss for shit.
Or bench press fuck all
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It is pretty funny though just how much of the solution to getting properly fit/strong/healthy/living longer is just plain old common sense. As he says, running slow ain't gonna make much difference if you smash a pie and 6 beers afterwards then get 5 hours sleep. Taking a
fucking boringsensible approach really isn't that complicated if you want to be consistently training and improvingOf course I will continue to ignore all of this and keep pushing the boat out until something happens that means I have to change my ways
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It is pretty funny though just how much of the solution to getting properly fit/strong/healthy/living longer is just plain old common sense. As he says, running slow ain't gonna make much difference if you smash a pie and 6 beers afterwards then get 5 hours sleep. Taking a
fucking boringsensible approach really isn't that complicated if you want to be consistently training and improvingOf course I will continue to ignore all of this and keep pushing the boat out until something happens that means I have to change my ways
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
It is pretty funny though just how much of the solution to getting properly fit/strong/healthy/living longer is just plain old common sense. As he says, running slow ain't gonna make much difference if you smash a pie and 6 beers afterwards then get 5 hours sleep. Taking a
fucking boringsensible approach really isn't that complicated if you want to be consistently training and improvingOf course I will continue to ignore all of this and keep pushing the boat out until something happens that means I have to change my ways
Also listen to the body as you get older.
Lathering the shit out of aching joints with Deep Heat isn’t always the answer, sometimes rest and recuperation is.
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
Question for you on HR Zones - are you able to actually do anything remotely productive in Z2? If I look at the plan I am loosely following, it looks like this:
Max = 165
Z1 = 60-65% = 105-114bmp
Z2 = 65-75% = 114-131bpm
Z3 = 75-80% = 131-140bpm
Z4 = 80-90% = 140-158bpmIf I look at anything I do, only swimming has me sitting Z2 for any length of time.
This was the week gone, adding HR's for extra data:
- Monday = rest day
- Tuesday = 1hr 20 on the trainer. average HR 141bpm
- Wednesday = Squad swimming - 3km drills, average HR 130bpm
- Thursday = Brick - 50mins on the trainer, average HR 135, then 8.24km run at 5:12/km - average HR 154bpm
- Friday = 2km swim, all FS, no stops - took almost 50mins (god I am slow) and average HR was 130bpm
- Saturday = Brick - 1hr40mins trainer (didn't capture HR) then 5km run at 4:47/km, average HR 161bpm
- Sunday = 8km run at 4:55/km, average HR 155bpm
I reckon I'd enter Z2 doing a slow walk, and I can't stay there in anything except swimming (who knew drowning was such low-stress on your heart?),.
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
Question for you on HR Zones - are you able to actually do anything remotely productive in Z2? If I look at the plan I am loosely following, it looks like this:
Max = 165
Z1 = 60-65% = 105-114bmp
Z2 = 65-75% = 114-131bpm
Z3 = 75-80% = 131-140bpm
Z4 = 80-90% = 140-158bpmIf I look at anything I do, only swimming has me sitting Z2 for any length of time.
This was the week gone, adding HR's for extra data:
- Monday = rest day
- Tuesday = 1hr 20 on the trainer. average HR 141bpm
- Wednesday = Squad swimming - 3km drills, average HR 130bpm
- Thursday = Brick - 50mins on the trainer, average HR 135, then 8.24km run at 5:12/km - average HR 154bpm
- Friday = 2km swim, all FS, no stops - took almost 50mins (god I am slow) and average HR was 130bpm
- Saturday = Brick - 1hr40mins trainer (didn't capture HR) then 5km run at 4:47/km, average HR 161bpm
- Sunday = 8km run at 4:55/km, average HR 155bpm
I reckon I'd enter Z2 doing a slow walk, and I can't stay there in anything except swimming (who knew drowning was such low-stress on your heart?),.
Yep. You'd be lucky to get to zone 1 or 2 even when walking slow or doing weights (maybe very briefly). If you want to burn calories you either have to walk for farking hours or up that heart rate. But as you mention below, it will all go to shit if you then eat a heap of shit. Even the calories burnt in a marathon can be cancelled out relatively easily with a proper junk food binge. Swimming is an interesting one in that apparently cals burnt isn't just based on heart rate and that the body adjusting temp also plays a part. Could be bs, but more than one so-called expert has said that.
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
Question for you on HR Zones - are you able to actually do anything remotely productive in Z2? If I look at the plan I am loosely following, it looks like this:
Max = 165
Z1 = 60-65% = 105-114bmp
Z2 = 65-75% = 114-131bpm
Z3 = 75-80% = 131-140bpm
Z4 = 80-90% = 140-158bpmIf I look at anything I do, only swimming has me sitting Z2 for any length of time.
This was the week gone, adding HR's for extra data:
- Monday = rest day
- Tuesday = 1hr 20 on the trainer. average HR 141bpm
- Wednesday = Squad swimming - 3km drills, average HR 130bpm
- Thursday = Brick - 50mins on the trainer, average HR 135, then 8.24km run at 5:12/km - average HR 154bpm
- Friday = 2km swim, all FS, no stops - took almost 50mins (god I am slow) and average HR was 130bpm
- Saturday = Brick - 1hr40mins trainer (didn't capture HR) then 5km run at 4:47/km, average HR 161bpm
- Sunday = 8km run at 4:55/km, average HR 155bpm
I reckon I'd enter Z2 doing a slow walk, and I can't stay there in anything except swimming (who knew drowning was such low-stress on your heart?),.
Yep. You'd be lucky to get to zone 1 or 2 even when walking slow or doing weights (maybe very briefly). If you want to burn calories you either have to walk for farking hours or up that heart rate. But as you mention below, it will all go to shit if you then eat a heap of shit. Even the calories burnt in a marathon can be cancelled out relatively easily with a proper junk food binge. Swimming is an interesting one in that apparently cals burnt isn't just based on heart rate and that the body adjusting temp also plays a part. Could be bs, but more than one so-called expert has said that.
It does take time and patience. V little of my run training was faster than 5:40/45 pace, but I felt I could run that in an already stressed out body, for a long time ( and I did in the race).
How did you actually arrive at your max heart rate in order to establish your zones?
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It does take time and patience. V little of my run training was faster than 5:40/45 pace, but I felt I could run that in an already stressed out body, for a long time ( and I did in the race).
How did you actually arrive at your max heart rate in order to establish your zones?
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
It does take time and patience. V little of my run training was faster than 5:40/45 pace, but I felt I could run that in an already stressed out body, for a long time ( and I did in the race).
How did you actually arrive at your max heart rate in order to establish your zones?
Just did the old 220 less my age calc
Maybe I’ll try my next long run at that sort of pace and see where the HR goes. It always feels annoying starting at that pace rather than a 5:15/km say, but the reality is that over 20kms it’s only 10 extra minutes out there!
Did 90mins on the trainer today with 3 x 15min efforts - Ave HR 134, Max 157 - so ALMOST a Z2 average!
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The cool thing about that chart above is the way it shows the falls when you have a quick break - the 3 x efforts are obvious, but you can see in the last effort I had to take 2 x 30 second phone calls. Clear as day. And my HR never reached the peak of the 2nd set as a result
Love data
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
It does take time and patience. V little of my run training was faster than 5:40/45 pace, but I felt I could run that in an already stressed out body, for a long time ( and I did in the race).
How did you actually arrive at your max heart rate in order to establish your zones?
Just did the old 220 less my age calc
Maybe I’ll try my next long run at that sort of pace and see where the HR goes. It always feels annoying starting at that pace rather than a 5:15/km say, but the reality is that over 20kms it’s only 10 extra minutes out there!
Did 90mins on the trainer today with 3 x 15min efforts - Ave HR 134, Max 157 - so ALMOST a Z2 average!
@voodoo short of being tested in a lab, there are ‘better’ ways of approximating max heart rate via physical tests you can do yourself Just have a quick google. You may find it’s actually higher than you think.
The 220 age thing is about as useful as the BMI calc telling an athlete that they’re fat.
