Black Caps v England
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When Anderson and Broad get to take the new pink ball up under lights twice in a test, then we are really up against it no matter what else happens. That's partly our fault for inexplicably choosing to bowl first (WTF?), but there's also an element of luck for them there which gave those two bowlers a big leg up, which given their class they really didn't need. I don't like day/night tests for that reason.
We had one crack under lights, and the difference in class of the bowlers was pretty apparent. Southee was good and a little unlucky, but runs were just leaking at the other end. Too short, too wide, just crap being served up too often which meant England could score freely despite losing a couple of wickets. That was the most disappointing part of the whole test for me, it was our chance to really get ahead in the game and we just squandered it. If that was Southee and Boult opening then things would have looked very different, you can't bazball your way out of those two swinging it round corners in tandem.
We still have a good team, and if we can get Henry back opening with Southee that will test the English openers a lot more which should make a big difference. Wags can then go back to being first or second change where he thrives.
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When Anderson and Broad get to take the new pink ball up under lights twice in a test, then we are really up against it no matter what else happens. That's partly our fault for inexplicably choosing to bowl first (WTF?), but there's also an element of luck for them there which gave those two bowlers a big leg up, which given their class they really didn't need. I don't like day/night tests for that reason.
We had one crack under lights, and the difference in class of the bowlers was pretty apparent. Southee was good and a little unlucky, but runs were just leaking at the other end. Too short, too wide, just crap being served up too often which meant England could score freely despite losing a couple of wickets. That was the most disappointing part of the whole test for me, it was our chance to really get ahead in the game and we just squandered it. If that was Southee and Boult opening then things would have looked very different, you can't bazball your way out of those two swinging it round corners in tandem.
We still have a good team, and if we can get Henry back opening with Southee that will test the English openers a lot more which should make a big difference. Wags can then go back to being first or second change where he thrives.
I’m not so sure luck played such a big part. I reckon Stokes would have batted first if he’d won the toss with the plan being score big(ish) but score quickly, then get the opposition batting under the lights. A good aggressive plan that was executed very well. Thereafter England were more or less in control of their own destiny.
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When Anderson and Broad get to take the new pink ball up under lights twice in a test, then we are really up against it no matter what else happens. That's partly our fault for inexplicably choosing to bowl first (WTF?), but there's also an element of luck for them there which gave those two bowlers a big leg up, which given their class they really didn't need. I don't like day/night tests for that reason.
We had one crack under lights, and the difference in class of the bowlers was pretty apparent. Southee was good and a little unlucky, but runs were just leaking at the other end. Too short, too wide, just crap being served up too often which meant England could score freely despite losing a couple of wickets. That was the most disappointing part of the whole test for me, it was our chance to really get ahead in the game and we just squandered it. If that was Southee and Boult opening then things would have looked very different, you can't bazball your way out of those two swinging it round corners in tandem.
We still have a good team, and if we can get Henry back opening with Southee that will test the English openers a lot more which should make a big difference. Wags can then go back to being first or second change where he thrives.
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v England:
We still have a good team
Winless from our last 7 tests would suggest otherwise.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v England:
We still have a good team
Winless from our last 7 tests would suggest otherwise.
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v England:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v England:
We still have a good team
Winless from our last 7 tests would suggest otherwise.
Yep stats don't back that up at all.
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@Catogrande oh yeah Stokes would have 100% batted first, it's win win. Get bowled out on the first day and you get to take the new ball under lights, if you don't then you're well ahead of the game anyway. Bowling first was an idiotic decision from Southee that put us on the back foot from the get go. The fact remains that there's still an element of luck when it comes to the new ball/lights combination. We got lucky once and squandered it as I say, so not taking away from England in that match, but was making the point that I dislike the day/night tests as they can be turned on their head because of that.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v England:
We still have a good team
Winless from our last 7 tests would suggest otherwise.
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps v England:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v England:
We still have a good team
Winless from our last 7 tests would suggest otherwise.
We definitely need a shake up, we should be doing better than recent results with the talent we still have at our disposal. It's been a disappointing run of results but I think we can turn it around. I was annoyed that the first test was day/night, they need to be scrapped.
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@Catogrande oh yeah Stokes would have 100% batted first, it's win win. Get bowled out on the first day and you get to take the new ball under lights, if you don't then you're well ahead of the game anyway. Bowling first was an idiotic decision from Southee that put us on the back foot from the get go. The fact remains that there's still an element of luck when it comes to the new ball/lights combination. We got lucky once and squandered it as I say, so not taking away from England in that match, but was making the point that I dislike the day/night tests as they can be turned on their head because of that.
Ah! Understand a bit better now. Nuance in the written word is sometimes difficult to see.
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@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
no use slamming Stead if he has not got the cattle to pick from, he still as coach has to try and win games.
poor Gary cattle less Stead - he has 3 of the 6 test batsmen averaging 50+, a keeper averaging 45 and an opener averaging 40+ we are like 3x worse than when Hesson was coach, yet NZ's top order have crazy good averages.
We have a top order averaging 55, 42, 54, 40, 58, 45, Mike Hesson would've given his right arm for a batting unit of that strength...
They are hardly living up to their averages are they,Pathetic batting.
That was a batting clown show I see better batting here in 2nd grade club.Adding to that Hesson actually won nothing no titles as Black Cap Coach and he had Williamson and Taylor 2 of the best batsmen we have ever produced.
At least Stead can retire as the only Black Caps Coach to win a World Title.
And if you believe people he did it with Nicholls who is shit and Latham who cant score runs against the big teams.@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
no use slamming Stead if he has not got the cattle to pick from, he still as coach has to try and win games.
poor Gary cattle less Stead - he has 3 of the 6 test batsmen averaging 50+, a keeper averaging 45 and an opener averaging 40+ we are like 3x worse than when Hesson was coach, yet NZ's top order have crazy good averages.
We have a top order averaging 55, 42, 54, 40, 58, 45, Mike Hesson would've given his right arm for a batting unit of that strength...
They are hardly living up to their averages are they,Pathetic batting.
That was a batting clown show I see better batting here in 2nd grade club.Adding to that Hesson actually won nothing no titles as Black Cap Coach and he had Williamson and Taylor 2 of the best batsmen we have ever produced.
At least Stead can retire as the only Black Caps Coach to win a World Title.
And if you believe people he did it with Nicholls who is shit and Latham who cant score runs against the big teams.Chris, I know you will never have a bad word to say about Stead as he's from Canterbury.
This is the most poorly coached Blackcaps side I've seen.
I believe previous coaches Hesson, Wright, Bracewell, Moles, Trist, Aberhart, etc.. when considering context (not just purely results) did comparatively better with worse teams than Stead.
Even when we had a team of literal nobodies except Taylor we at least did things tactically to gain an advantage, we could often play above ourselves due to resourceful tactics - Fleming used to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. We still managed to be competitive despite very limited resources. Under Stead we've had close to world-class batting and bowling unit for the 1st time & we don't even compete with top sides unless literally everything is lined-up in our favor.
Stead is the worst coach we've had, and I stand by that.
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@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
no use slamming Stead if he has not got the cattle to pick from, he still as coach has to try and win games.
poor Gary cattle less Stead - he has 3 of the 6 test batsmen averaging 50+, a keeper averaging 45 and an opener averaging 40+ we are like 3x worse than when Hesson was coach, yet NZ's top order have crazy good averages.
We have a top order averaging 55, 42, 54, 40, 58, 45, Mike Hesson would've given his right arm for a batting unit of that strength...
They are hardly living up to their averages are they,Pathetic batting.
That was a batting clown show I see better batting here in 2nd grade club.Adding to that Hesson actually won nothing no titles as Black Cap Coach and he had Williamson and Taylor 2 of the best batsmen we have ever produced.
At least Stead can retire as the only Black Caps Coach to win a World Title.
And if you believe people he did it with Nicholls who is shit and Latham who cant score runs against the big teams.Chris, I know you will never have a bad word to say about Stead as he's from Canterbury.
This is the most poorly coached Blackcaps side I've seen.
I believe previous coaches Hesson, Wright, Bracewell, Moles, Trist, Aberhart, etc.. when considering context (not just purely results) did comparatively better with worse teams than Stead.
Even when we had a team of literal nobodies except Taylor we at least did things tactically to gain an advantage, we could often play above ourselves due to resourceful tactics - Fleming used to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. We still managed to be competitive despite very limited resources. Under Stead we've had close to world-class batting and bowling unit for the 1st time & we don't even compete with top sides unless literally everything is lined-up in our favor.
Stead is the worst coach we've had, and I stand by that.
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris said in Black Caps v England:
no use slamming Stead if he has not got the cattle to pick from, he still as coach has to try and win games.
poor Gary cattle less Stead - he has 3 of the 6 test batsmen averaging 50+, a keeper averaging 45 and an opener averaging 40+ we are like 3x worse than when Hesson was coach, yet NZ's top order have crazy good averages.
We have a top order averaging 55, 42, 54, 40, 58, 45, Mike Hesson would've given his right arm for a batting unit of that strength...
They are hardly living up to their averages are they,Pathetic batting.
That was a batting clown show I see better batting here in 2nd grade club.Adding to that Hesson actually won nothing no titles as Black Cap Coach and he had Williamson and Taylor 2 of the best batsmen we have ever produced.
At least Stead can retire as the only Black Caps Coach to win a World Title.
And if you believe people he did it with Nicholls who is shit and Latham who cant score runs against the big teams.Chris, I know you will never have a bad word to say about Stead as he's from Canterbury.
This is the most poorly coached Blackcaps side I've seen.
I believe previous coaches Hesson, Wright, Bracewell, Moles, Trist, Aberhart, etc.. when considering context (not just purely results) did comparatively better with worse teams than Stead.
Even when we had a team of literal nobodies except Taylor we at least did things tactically to gain an advantage, we could often play above ourselves due to resourceful tactics - Fleming used to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. We still managed to be competitive despite very limited resources. Under Stead we had close to world-class batting and bowling unit for the 1st time & we don't even compete with top sides unless literally everything is lined-up in our favor.
Stead is the worst coach we've had, and I stand by that.
You are allowed to have an opinion and some I don’t disagree with,I believe it is time for a change and a new voice,
But the players need to take responsibility for their performances on the field or no matter who the coach is we will get the same results.
As a coach the first players you drop are the ones who deflect from their own performances as they will never learn and ruin the team culture.
I want to see players stand up and own their bad performances not blame others for their poor judgement, lack of fight and it seems bad preparation leading to the bad performances.
Cricket is different from other team sports it is individual performances within a team enviroment.
Players need to stand up and deliver for what they are paid for.
Not treat cricket like a joke, I was embarrassed by that result and I want to see the players own it.
And looking at the talent coming through after watching the domestic scene in NZ this season it is in a terrible state with a lot of pain to come. -
I went on Saturday and the NZ bowling display was embarrassingly bad for a test match. Wagner kept bowling those medium pace half trackers and England were just deciding where to hit them, moving to one side of the wicket or the other. The runs leaked so fast, the game was pretty much over by the first break.
Explain this to me - why does Wagner bowl EVERY ball short. In T20 you don't bowl the same ball all the time and if the batsman is premeditating backing away and hitting you over mid-off, surely you have to bowl some variation. The bowler whose name begins with K must never play test cricket again, he just sprays it around.
Top bowling by Broad under the lights. hitting a beautiful length, cutting it in and hitting the stumps against the best batsmen that NZ has.
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For Wagner, those predictable short balls now aren't the threat they were against Steve Smith. He's 37 next month, and even the Naenae Express 'only' made it to 38 at the top level (though 68 in all cricket!). Sir Richard had just ticked over 39 at international retirement.
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Worth noting from the Black Caps Facebook page:
During his 57* in the 2nd innings at Bay Oval, Daryl Mitchell brought up 1,000 Test runs. Mitchell is the 5th fastest New Zealander to reach the milestone and has made six fifty's and four hundreds in his 15 Tests, at an average of 58.
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Worth noting from the Black Caps Facebook page:
During his 57* in the 2nd innings at Bay Oval, Daryl Mitchell brought up 1,000 Test runs. Mitchell is the 5th fastest New Zealander to reach the milestone and has made six fifty's and four hundreds in his 15 Tests, at an average of 58.
@Donsteppa interesting. I still flinch when I see him in the top 6 ... clearly I need to reset my opinion.
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It's amusing that we are now quite happy to see Henry available for selection. Rightly or wrongly the poor fella has been maligned during his NZ career. Now it's welcome back Matt we missed ya.
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It's amusing that we are now quite happy to see Henry available for selection. Rightly or wrongly the poor fella has been maligned during his NZ career. Now it's welcome back Matt we missed ya.
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@Crazy-Horse Well he always was a "poor mans Boult/Southee".
Now that Boult has gone the stark realization of how big a gap that is to fill is coming to the fore. Jamieson out is hurting us badly.
@Windows97 Jamieson is an interesting one. I felt prior to the injury his performances were starting to drop off compared to the outstanding beginning he had. Hopefully he can find his way back up there again.
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@Windows97 Jamieson is an interesting one. I felt prior to the injury his performances were starting to drop off compared to the outstanding beginning he had. Hopefully he can find his way back up there again.
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:
@Windows97 Jamieson is an interesting one. I felt prior to the injury his performances were starting to drop off compared to the outstanding beginning he had. Hopefully he can find his way back up there again.
he had massive bounce, that troubled lots of very good batsmen. Who knows if he comes back to form; the huge IPL contract seemed to get into his head. Poor bastard, though, stress fractures are shite
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@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:
@Windows97 Jamieson is an interesting one. I felt prior to the injury his performances were starting to drop off compared to the outstanding beginning he had. Hopefully he can find his way back up there again.
he had massive bounce, that troubled lots of very good batsmen. Who knows if he comes back to form; the huge IPL contract seemed to get into his head. Poor bastard, though, stress fractures are shite
@nzzp said in Black Caps v England:
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v England:
@Windows97 Jamieson is an interesting one. I felt prior to the injury his performances were starting to drop off compared to the outstanding beginning he had. Hopefully he can find his way back up there again.
he had massive bounce, that troubled lots of very good batsmen. Who knows if he comes back to form; the huge IPL contract seemed to get into his head. Poor bastard, though, stress fractures are shite
It depends how they repair it in surgery,Pat Cummins had 3 as a teenager and actually how they fixed the problem, he has never had another Back problem,They did surgically insert Support Rods into Cummins back to stop the strain on the spine.But he still kept his flex for bowling.
If Jamieson has that done he could come back stronger than ever.
