Super Rugby 2024
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What top quality Kiwi wants his AB prospects ruined?
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What top quality Kiwi wants his AB prospects ruined?
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
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@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
to start with...not my post, was just clarifying what i believe was being suggested
but, to play devils advocate, i dont think playing for an aussie team would inherently ruin a players chances, guys keep getting picked from the Highlanders even though we're shit more often than we're good
also, we're bound too see BB back and he hasnt even been playing in the same comp, so class can shine through
i assume they would get paid proportional to their representations in squads, work out what they would get paid if playing for a NZ team and subtract that from their AB's deal?, other countries seem to work it out so im sure it can be done
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I get the Aussies just want to win, but letting the Aus sides buy kiwis to do it is a terrible idea for their rugby. They just axed 20% of their professional spots, but to tie up more with overseas players just narrows their potential pathways even more.
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I get the Aussies just want to win, but letting the Aus sides buy kiwis to do it is a terrible idea for their rugby. They just axed 20% of their professional spots, but to tie up more with overseas players just narrows their potential pathways even more.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
I get the Aussies just want to win, but letting the Aus sides buy kiwis to do it is a terrible idea for their rugby. They just axed 20% of their professional spots, but to tie up more with overseas players just narrows their potential pathways even more.
it makes sense in some cases. Not often, but it can - if you can get a solid journeyman/standard setter with no equivalent locals. Dare I say a 'glue' player
That's not what happens though, you throw shedloads of cash at failed leaguies or 'flashy' players who may get bums on seats.
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@nostrildamus yeah but thats the point...they have now lost the belief they can win....that part was kind of key
@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Apparently Derpus writes for The Roar now:
Kiwis don't care. Well 30k already sold for other semi, more to the point kiwis don't want to watch a foregone conclusion (tho I do, as I get stressed about live games, I love a smashing!). Git gud Ozzie, ffs, we need it
thats kind of important though isn't it, would be good if we could get to the point that people still turned up or tuned in just to see their team play, even if its a hiding....thats should be fun to watch
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@nostrildamus yeah but thats the point...they have now lost the belief they can win....that part was kind of key
@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim said in Super Rugby 2024:
Apparently Derpus writes for The Roar now:
Kiwis don't care. Well 30k already sold for other semi, more to the point kiwis don't want to watch a foregone conclusion (tho I do, as I get stressed about live games, I love a smashing!). Git gud Ozzie, ffs, we need it
thats kind of important though isn't it, would be good if we could get to the point that people still turned up or tuned in just to see their team play, even if its a hiding....thats should be fun to watch
yeah there's a different kind of self-delusion going on in Australia every so often. Or maybe it's just trying to have everything both ways..
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
Players asked to play in positions that make them uncompetitive with peers, overworked and playing to look like a donkey. Our front rowers are taking a battering this year - would we have wanted the remaining fit ones over at the Tahs this season? Who thinks players like Proctor would be making a case for selection playing for the Rebels or Force?
And predictably someone will point to long term ABs who have taken sabbaticals, totally ignoring that they're a known quantity when they left and return to play in the same position having taken what we all know is a playing R&R.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
Players asked to play in positions that make them uncompetitive with peers, overworked and playing to look like a donkey. Our front rowers are taking a battering this year - would we have wanted the remaining fit ones over at the Tahs this season? Who thinks players like Proctor would be making a case for selection playing for the Rebels or Force?
And predictably someone will point to long term ABs who have taken sabbaticals, totally ignoring that they're a known quantity when they left and return to play in the same position having taken what we all know is a playing R&R.
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2024:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@antipodean i think he's meaning all ABs to be selected for Aussie teams
What top quality AB wants his chances ruined ?
And how will they get paid?
I’m in favor in principle, but those feel like two pretty big questions that would need answers. It also won’t help the Oz depth now they have a more appropriate number of teams.
Players asked to play in positions that make them uncompetitive with peers, overworked and playing to look like a donkey. Our front rowers are taking a battering this year - would we have wanted the remaining fit ones over at the Tahs this season? Who thinks players like Proctor would be making a case for selection playing for the Rebels or Force?
And predictably someone will point to long term ABs who have taken sabbaticals, totally ignoring that they're a known quantity when they left and return to play in the same position having taken what we all know is a playing R&R.
My feeling is exactly that those risks would require much higher payments (i.e., to balance out the chance of losing an AB spot due to local pressure or shit coaching etc). I can't see the Oz sides having that money - or at least not spending it in that way.
If they had the money, they could have been recruiting guys like Patchell this year anyway.
One idea I think could be interesting would be if JVs could be set up between Super franchises and Japanese league teams or the JRFU. There might be some money there and access to one or two Japanese players with enough talent to contribute.
It's surprising how many people still support the Reds here after they had Goromaru, that sort of recruiting could be much more fruitful for the Oz teams.
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Rugby.com.au surveyed the captains of all the sides before the season started:
1) Which other team outside of your own is most likely to reach the Grand Final?
7 (votes): Crusaders (Ninth)
2: Chiefs, Blues (Both Finals)
1 vote: Brumbies (Semi-finals)2) Which other team outside of your own will surprise fans in 2024?
6 (votes): Fijian Drua
2: Moana Pasifika
1: Rebels, Brumbies, Force, Hurricanes3) Which team do you love to beat the most?
4 (votes): Crusaders
3: Waratahs
2: No answers
1: Reds, Rebels, Chiefs4) What is the toughest away trip in Super Rugby?
3 (votes): Fijian Drua, Crusaders
2: Brumbies, Blues
1: Waratahs, Highlanders5) Which other player from another club is most likely to win SRP MVP?
2 (votes): Damian McKenzie
1: Len Ikitau, Timoci Tavatavanawai, Luke Jacobson, Jake Gordon, Mark Telea, Rob Leota, Rob Valetini, Scott Barrett, Tate McDermott, Taniela Tele’a6) Who is the most annoying player to face?
2 (votes): Jake Gordon, Naitoa Ah Kuoi
1: Angus Bell, Tate McDermott, Fraser McReight, Ethan de Groot, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Kurt Eklund, Du’Plessis Kirifi, Samisoni Taukei'aho -
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5k@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
Man, Super Rugby was awesome in the early 2000s. Take me back.
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
Graphic is utterly worthless when people select arbitrary dates to make comparisons against and exclude data. People like that should be sterilised for the benefit of mankind.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
Graphic is utterly worthless when people select arbitrary dates to make comparisons against and exclude data. People like that should be sterilised for the benefit of mankind.
@antipodean that seems little extreme, doesnt seem like a crazy date to look at as early 2000's often refereed to as when super rugby was at its best. its also comparing NRL from the same time period so seems like a starting point to talk about what changed to see league attendances improve whilst super rugby has declined
its just the start of a discussion, not claiming to be a definitive conclusion
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@antipodean that seems little extreme, doesnt seem like a crazy date to look at as early 2000's often refereed to as when super rugby was at its best. its also comparing NRL from the same time period so seems like a starting point to talk about what changed to see league attendances improve whilst super rugby has declined
its just the start of a discussion, not claiming to be a definitive conclusion
@Kiwiwomble For it to have value the Oz and NZ SR crowds would be from the same year. It wouldn't miss a sizeable input (the Blues who are in the final for this year). It would also not include a comparison for a team that has only played half a season and contrast it against a season where they came sixth, making the finals. Let's see what the Warriors' crowd is like if they continue their slide down the ladder.
I don't see what value it adds to any discussion.
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@Kiwiwomble For it to have value the Oz and NZ SR crowds would be from the same year. It wouldn't miss a sizeable input (the Blues who are in the final for this year). It would also not include a comparison for a team that has only played half a season and contrast it against a season where they came sixth, making the finals. Let's see what the Warriors' crowd is like if they continue their slide down the ladder.
I don't see what value it adds to any discussion.
@antipodean ok, you're welcome to ignore
I was more interested in the 2003 figures as we'd already working our some rough numbers for this year, including the blues, earlier in the thread
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So you're comparing a different contest that had the benefit of South African crowds to a season rebuilding from covid absence with the "crowds" of Moana Pacifica, Drua, Force and Rebels as direct replacements? What discussion leads from that?
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
The average attendance for each NZ team in Super Rugby has been finalised below. I miscalculated the Canes one initially because I factored in too many games.
Blues: average attendance of 21k
Hurricanes: average attendance of 16.1k
Chiefs: average attendance of 14.2k
Crusaders: average attendance of 12.6k
Highlanders: average attendance of 12.5kback on attendances, ive seen this info graphic going around
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
The Blues have a fairly similar average to the Warriors which is the real direct head-to-head. Actually, for more perspective on the sizes, let's say you have a born and bred Cantab living in Auckland who is a rugby and league fan. He's likely going to go to Warriors matches because that's his team, he's less likely to go to Blues matches when they're not playing the inbreds because those aren't his teams.
Also, the Warriors built their crowds on discounted tickets which means their revenue is quite low. (Me stating this is not a criticism of this plan as it worked really well for them as a hype train method, especially with a fawning media.)
At any rate comparing crowds know to the golden age of Super is pretty futile, we know that there's been a decrease in fan attendance at games (this was happening way before Covid), but Sky have said multiple times (TJ has said it on air) that TV audiences are good.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
The Blues have a fairly similar average to the Warriors which is the real direct head-to-head. Actually, for more perspective on the sizes, let's say you have a born and bred Cantab living in Auckland who is a rugby and league fan. He's likely going to go to Warriors matches because that's his team, he's less likely to go to Blues matches when they're not playing the inbreds because those aren't his teams.
Also, the Warriors built their crowds on discounted tickets which means their revenue is quite low. (Me stating this is not a criticism of this plan as it worked really well for them as a hype train method, especially with a fawning media.)
At any rate comparing crowds know to the golden age of Super is pretty futile, we know that there's been a decrease in fan attendance at games (this was happening way before Covid), but Sky have said multiple times (TJ has said it on air) that TV audiences are good.
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
At any rate comparing crowds know to the golden age of Super is pretty futile, we know that there's been a decrease in fan attendance at games (this was happening way before Covid), but Sky have said multiple times (TJ has said it on air) that TV audiences are good.
It's well established the bums on seats metric isn't worth as much as TV viewership. That being said a balance needs to be struck so both are healthy.
SA isn't coming back (they like playing in URC) and Australia's administration is clearly swimming upstream. Hopefully the Rebels' demise makes the others more competitive.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
im sure cost of living is a factor....but with the Warriors going up you have to wonder how much of a factor
The Blues have a fairly similar average to the Warriors which is the real direct head-to-head. Actually, for more perspective on the sizes, let's say you have a born and bred Cantab living in Auckland who is a rugby and league fan. He's likely going to go to Warriors matches because that's his team, he's less likely to go to Blues matches when they're not playing the inbreds because those aren't his teams.
Also, the Warriors built their crowds on discounted tickets which means their revenue is quite low. (Me stating this is not a criticism of this plan as it worked really well for them as a hype train method, especially with a fawning media.)
At any rate comparing crowds know to the golden age of Super is pretty futile, we know that there's been a decrease in fan attendance at games (this was happening way before Covid), but Sky have said multiple times (TJ has said it on air) that TV audiences are good.
