Super Rugby 2024
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@kiwi_expat you understand the idea that you haven't actually been to "Every other forum" though dont you....so its just your experience on some other forums
i say this as someone that actually agree with the original point though...but wording it like that just winds people up and they will ignore the actual message
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
Yep mate understand that, but the argument is they don't have money. Do you think MP have all this coin to buy players?? And the well run clubs generally have better players because they have spent the money on delevoping them, and making sure all is good behind the scenes. Almost any player etc who play at Crusaders will tell you they spend most money on academy and making sure back room staff are all aligned in making the team as good as they can be!
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
Yep mate understand that, but the argument is they don't have money. Do you think MP have all this coin to buy players?? And the well run clubs generally have better players because they have spent the money on delevoping them, and making sure all is good behind the scenes. Almost any player etc who play at Crusaders will tell you they spend most money on academy and making sure back room staff are all aligned in making the team as good as they can be!
@Dan54 there is a bit of chicken and egg about it all, would also be easier to get better/bigger/more sponsors if there is the opportunity to sign "better players"...seems pretty straight forward professional sports to me
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Yep chicken and egg, so how much extra sponsors do you really think MP will attract with more players? And do they drop the salary cap? I not saying your ideas are to be ignored, but I will bet most teams are buying the best players they can under their salary cap!
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Yep chicken and egg, so how much extra sponsors do you really think MP will attract with more players? And do they drop the salary cap? I not saying your ideas are to be ignored, but I will bet most teams are buying the best players they can under their salary cap!
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I got a question, one of the things that Aussies are whining about is money, how are they going to pay these top kiwi players enough money to go there? FFS they are losing players to overseas and are wanting cit price ones from NZ? The first thing they have to do is say if they want players from NZ to be availablr for Aus teams is have same rules as us, if their players go overseas they can't play for Wallabies!
@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
The first thing they have to do is say if they want players from NZ to be availablr for Aus teams
They are at present
The only thing that some want (the forward-thinking wise ones) is for NZ to open the door (like Aust has) and allow players not playing in NZ to be eligible for the ABs. Starting with super rugby teams. I want this door to be kept tightly closed for as long as possible.
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
The first thing they have to do is say if they want players from NZ to be availablr for Aus teams
They are at present
The only thing that some want (the forward-thinking wise ones) is for NZ to open the door (like Aust has) and allow players not playing in NZ to be eligible for the ABs. Starting with super rugby teams. I want this door to be kept tightly closed for as long as possible.
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@Dan54 i guess im not talking about MP...their business case is a bit flawed, we're talking about aussie teams attracting AB's and there is a lot of untapped sponsorship money over here when it comes to rugby
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 i guess im not talking about MP...their business case is a bit flawed, we're talking about aussie teams attracting AB's and there is a lot of untapped sponsorship money over here when it comes to rugby
Yep, and if they kept the players that have gone overseas , would the Aus teams get that untapped money?
Mate, I know you weren't really talking about MP or Drua, but when we get the discussion of players moving etc, they seem to be conveniently forgotten, and wouldn't that also open the gap to them? I truly understand the points you and others brought up, but Aussie could strengthen their teams by keeping players heading off shore surely. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 i guess im not talking about MP...their business case is a bit flawed, we're talking about aussie teams attracting AB's and there is a lot of untapped sponsorship money over here when it comes to rugby
Yep, and if they kept the players that have gone overseas , would the Aus teams get that untapped money?
Mate, I know you weren't really talking about MP or Drua, but when we get the discussion of players moving etc, they seem to be conveniently forgotten, and wouldn't that also open the gap to them? I truly understand the points you and others brought up, but Aussie could strengthen their teams by keeping players heading off shore surely.@Dan54 there just isn't the appetite for long term growth the old fashioned way...if there was they would still have the NRC or whatever it was called
Theyve had too many years of "losing"....they only way forward that RA can see, IMO, is the NRL/AFL expansion approach, big signings, lots of hype get some money in the door...get some success...AND ONLY THEN....look to build things on the back of success
I can see why if im honest, in a market SO saturated with other sports...its hard to attract the best young talent just on the promise "if you work hard and sacrifice lots of money from NRL/AFL....you...might....lay the foundation for the next young guy....
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@Dan54 there just isn't the appetite for long term growth the old fashioned way...if there was they would still have the NRC or whatever it was called
Theyve had too many years of "losing"....they only way forward that RA can see, IMO, is the NRL/AFL expansion approach, big signings, lots of hype get some money in the door...get some success...AND ONLY THEN....look to build things on the back of success
I can see why if im honest, in a market SO saturated with other sports...its hard to attract the best young talent just on the promise "if you work hard and sacrifice lots of money from NRL/AFL....you...might....lay the foundation for the next young guy....
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@Kiwiwomble Yep mate, and I not sure not getting into teams/squads because ABs/Kiwis are taking their spots will help them attract young players. But anyway, they have lost a shit load overseas, and probably should buy some of them back?
@Dan54 i think the consensus is the guys that have gone overseas weren't good enough...they lost when they played too
I find its a different mentality over here, all about winning, not worried if its local players. you know the adage aussie and NZ are like big brother and little brother?...i find thats really one sided, we care about aussie...and theyre not worried about us at all...so a young aussie rugby player would happy look up to a NZ player if they played for their local team
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I also think we need to stop being so anti-overseas. If they opened it up, allowed All Blacks to play in Australia, and encouraged New Zealand sides to sign a few more overseas players, I think it would improve the quality, and add some character.
As a Highlanders fan, Tanaka, Himeno & Burns have all been successes. Fans liked the players, and were impactful on the field. Think Bogado will go the same way in 2024 as well, just struggled with injuries. Even Haskell was fine.
Likewise, look at Pablo Matera, Kobus van Wyk, John Ryan, Joe Marchant... all these guys added to the competition. The Chiefs for instance may have a gap at tighthead prop. As opposed to getting a 29 year old journeyman who decided he didn't want to go to MLR, lets get a Georgian prop over. It would be awesome imo.
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@Dan54 i think the consensus is the guys that have gone overseas weren't good enough...they lost when they played too
I find its a different mentality over here, all about winning, not worried if its local players. you know the adage aussie and NZ are like big brother and little brother?...i find thats really one sided, we care about aussie...and theyre not worried about us at all...so a young aussie rugby player would happy look up to a NZ player if they played for their local team
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 i think the consensus is the guys that have gone overseas weren't good enough...they lost when they played too
I find its a different mentality over here, all about winning, not worried if its local players. you know the adage aussie and NZ are like big brother and little brother?...i find thats really one sided, we care about aussie...and theyre not worried about us at all...so a young aussie rugby player would happy look up to a NZ player if they played for their local team
Yep mate lived there for 20 odd years up to a couple of years back, but I didn't think the concensus over there was their best players went overseas, they pretty keen on them playing for Wallabies. I would bet most Aussies would want Skelton, Arnold, Kerevi, Korobite, Cooper etc playing in their teams, and that's who they should be getting back I think! Anyway, just my thoughts mate.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 i think the consensus is the guys that have gone overseas weren't good enough...they lost when they played too
I find its a different mentality over here, all about winning, not worried if its local players. you know the adage aussie and NZ are like big brother and little brother?...i find thats really one sided, we care about aussie...and theyre not worried about us at all...so a young aussie rugby player would happy look up to a NZ player if they played for their local team
Yep mate lived there for 20 odd years up to a couple of years back, but I didn't think the concensus over there was their best players went overseas, they pretty keen on them playing for Wallabies. I would bet most Aussies would want Skelton, Arnold, Kerevi, Korobite, Cooper etc playing in their teams, and that's who they should be getting back I think! Anyway, just my thoughts mate.
@Dan54 yeah, all good chat
true, dont mean to say they dont want them...just that getting them back doesnt fix everything
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This have been such an entertaining thread.
The crusaders won because they scored the most points. So they were the best team on the field on Saturday. We are the super rugby champions. Which means we are the best team in the competition.
I love Parkman’s posts. Love how you call us the jesters. No idea what that means.
Love kiwiexpat as well. You guys can say whatever you want about what happened on the field. Do you remember every decision right or wrong in every final in our seven titles. No of course not. Just like after we win the next three , no one will remember about these decisions in this final.
Keep your chins up boys.@chchfanatic said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
You guys can say whatever you want about what happened on the field. Do you remember every decision right or wrong in every final in our seven titles. No of course not. Just like after we win the next three , no one will remember about these decisions in this final.
Keep your chins up boys.Haha, not after shafting world-class Cotter for relative journeyman Rob Penney they won't.
Better hope Goodman has a change of heart soon because with Razor & Scott Hansen gone the only coach with pedigree at rugby park is Taimati Ellison. Perrin and Marshall will struggle without Razor constantly papering over their deficiencies.
Last year in their maiden campaign as senior NPC coaches they lead Ta$man to their worst season in over a decade, only 4 wins, they were an utterly disorganized uncoordinated rabble all season.
History tells us that Razor has gotten the most out of some average staff, in addition to players, remember Brad Mooar? Razor is just so bloody good he tends to transcend these barriers...
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@chchfanatic said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
You guys can say whatever you want about what happened on the field. Do you remember every decision right or wrong in every final in our seven titles. No of course not. Just like after we win the next three , no one will remember about these decisions in this final.
Keep your chins up boys.Haha, not after shafting world-class Cotter for relative journeyman Rob Penney they won't.
Better hope Goodman has a change of heart soon because with Razor & Scott Hansen gone the only coach with pedigree at rugby park is Taimati Ellison. Perrin and Marshall will struggle without Razor constantly papering over their deficiencies.
Last year in their maiden campaign as senior NPC coaches they lead Ta$man to their worst season in over a decade, only 4 wins, they were an utterly disorganized uncoordinated rabble all season.
History tells us that Razor has gotten the most out of some average staff, in addition to players, remember Brad Mooar? Razor is just so bloody good he tends to transcend these barriers...
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate. -
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.@Chris I also said the Crusaders would lose 4 so
@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.I wouldn't be so confident, based on Razor's history of lifting groups and leaving a god-sized hole with his departure.
Since Razor left Canterbury they have cycled through head coaches, backroom staff, and endured consistently middling performances - even in their good years they have never looked as decisive, convincing & ruthless as Razor's Canterbury did.
Equally notable is the fact Canterbury were performing poorly under Rob Penney until his 4th season (2008), the year Razor became his assistant, they won their first trophy that season & the following 3 with Razor a technical coach, forwards, defence and breakdown.
Based on the fact Penney has achieved poor results in every other role outside of Canterbury (U20's, Munster, NTT, Waratahs) I would suggest that Razor was a highly influential figure & can be at least partly attributed to Canterbury's run of success under Rob Penney.
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@Chris I also said the Crusaders would lose 4 so
@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.I wouldn't be so confident, based on Razor's history of lifting groups and leaving a god-sized hole with his departure.
Since Razor left Canterbury they have cycled through head coaches, backroom staff, and endured consistently middling performances - even in their good years they have never looked as decisive, convincing & ruthless as Razor's Canterbury did.
Equally notable is the fact Canterbury were performing poorly under Rob Penney until his 4th season (2008), the year Razor became his assistant, they won their first trophy that season & the following 3 with Razor a technical coach, forwards, defence and breakdown.
Based on the fact Penney has achieved poor results in every other role outside of Canterbury (U20's, Munster, NTT, Waratahs) I would suggest that Razor was a highly influential figure & can be at least partly attributed to Canterbury's run of success under Rob Penney.
All speculation really,I trust Razor have left systems and people in place to carry on.
There are some good people still involved at the Crusaders from Angus Gardiner down,
I don’t think they are going to drop the ball going forward. -
All speculation really,I trust Razor have left systems and people in place to carry on.
There are some good people still involved at the Crusaders from Angus Gardiner down,
I don’t think they are going to drop the ball going forward. -
@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I don’t think they are going to drop the ball going forward
There's a difference between dropping the ball and winning the title every year.
Oh I don’t ever remember saying we would win the next 3 years,Someone else said that,
i believe we will still be a good chance each year going forward.
It is only a matter of time before we lose one or two, we are just not going to fall off a cliff as some hope over the next few years. -
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.@Chris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
It is all good Taimati Ellison being bought though as the next Coach.
You said we could not win this year it happened never right us off mate.I will in a grammar test.
