2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia
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@nzzp said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste
This.
2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.
Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.
I don't know what it was like in NZ at the time of "that" call but here in the UK it was mainly either "phew, we got away with that one" or just some embarrassed grins. What I do recall though is much frothing at the mouth from NZ, from fans, from pundits, from media and even from some of the guys on here. I know that if the boot had been on the other foot I'd have been spewing too, so I get that, but all the talk of conspiracies, deals and fixes was something to behold.
Re the bolded bit, I'm right with you here, such whining and so on should have no place in the game, but do not pretend that it is one sided. Rassie is the past master here (maybe he has a poster of Woodward in his bedroom)? Schmidt and the Aussie media and pundits have had an ongoing whinge about the Morgan clear out. And we still hear from Kiwis all over the place about that decision in the deciding test in 2017 and of course barnes in teh French game. And don't forget, Deans did score!
We've all got stuff like this going on in our camps.
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@Catogrande I don't recall seeing anything quite as monstrous as "the deal" any other time, let alone a reversed decision quite so bungled and in opposition to the laws.
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@Bones said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande I don't recall seeing anything quite as monstrous as "the deal" any other time, let alone a reversed decision quite so bungled and in opposition to the laws.
Amuskelli got close yesterday. Signalling advantage for a knock on and then when Wilson buggered it up by going into touch reversed his knock on decision and gave the BILs a line out. As Wilson was trying to tell him, things might have worked out differently if the Wobbs didn't think they had the advantage. His actual words to the ref were that it was his mistake not theirs. And he was right. Fortunately it did not have the same impact on the game.
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@pakman said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Looking back, I think Farrell only really got the right XV out in first test. Demoting Genge and Tuipolotu and losing McCarthy caused a significant fall off in performance.
That and the strange bench selections in tests 2 & 3.
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Just finished Ian Foster's book (@His-Bobness recommendation) and he makes some interesting comments on refereeing consistency.
Was told by a referee it was felt the AB's had got off lightly after an AB game had been reviewed by a panel and should have received 4 yellow cards. Lo and behold in the next Test or two the ABs had more decisions going against them - inc. 2 YCs - than was normal.
He's not one to moan, unlike some, and isn't in his book - but makes a valid point about Refs being influenced by peer pressure and it causing serious problems for players and coaches. Subtext was refereeing has become a bit of a mess and the whole structure needs to be looked at for the good of the game.
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I'd like to say that surprised me but the reality is that referees are now subject to an incredible level of scrutiny with slo-mo footage from God knows how many different camera angles and this backed up by aggressive comments and accusations from some of the coaching teams. It is bound to happen that they react to all this. What the answer is I don't know but I'm guessing that some of those wonderful marketing guys will be telling all the suits that the TMO interference etc all adds to the drama and leads to more bums on seats. In which case we can expect more rather than less.
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Yep. It isn't the Refs that are the problem, it's the system that they work under.
The point being made is Refs are human and are being influenced by how refs as a group manage games and how they are assessed. Foster's thinks this maybe inadvertently leads to a group-think approach to how certain teams are judged which exacerbates problems and makes their job so much harder.
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Group think can and does work the opposite way too though
You only have to look at RWC matches where underdogs are refereed differently if the score is close
Minnow upsetting a giant
Minnow must be cheating -
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@game_film said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@sparky I think the concept is about as bulletproof as a money spinner gets for lots of reasons. But at the same time the recent tours have been so incredibly dour with very little memorable ‘rugby’.
It’s not a celebration of rugby flair
It’s a chance at rugby immortality
And for the hosts possibly their only chance
